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The Mac Platform Decline

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Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#111

Post by paulddraper »

baby wrote: post #86
jeffehobbs wrote: post #73

This recent round of updates made me consider what I need from a "work" machine. For me, it comes down to three items: * Can I code on this machine? This means at minimum three tasks: write, deploy and test code. This also connotes a lot of things, including but not limited to access to a non-unobfucated file system. * Can I view all file formats easily and successfully? This includes formats like XML and json which…

> XML and json which are not typically meant to be viewed by a human XML and json are meant to be viewed by a human. Those are visual encodings a contrario to binary encodings.

Meant to be viewable by a human, but not viewed by most humans.

Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#112

Post by threeseed »

jasonjei wrote: post #77
zepto wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep seeing people say things about how the Mac is sidelining serious developers and content producers, but I haven't seen any actual argument as to why this is so. Can you explain?

TouchBar killed the tactile ESC key. People using vim or BootCamp and/or Linux, Windows, VMware, or Photoshop are in for a more difficult ride. So instead of having access to ESC/Func keys, we can type emoji or use Apple Pay. The hardware on all Macs are updated on a very infrequent basis as mentioned in the article. GPUs sold with machines today are often the same as ones sold years ago. Apple killed their external…

Look at all the screenshots of the Touch Bar. Many of them have the Esc key present. And you must be seriously out of touch if you think it's a deal breaker.

Also it's rumours that Apple killed their external monitor option.

Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#113

Post by Exuma »

jeffehobbs wrote: post #73

This recent round of updates made me consider what I need from a "work" machine. For me, it comes down to three items: * Can I code on this machine? This means at minimum three tasks: write, deploy and test code. This also connotes a lot of things, including but not limited to access to a non-unobfucated file system. * Can I view all file formats easily and successfully? This includes formats like XML and json which…

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/json-formatter/bcj...

Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#114

Post by snom380 »

mbernstein wrote: post #14
casion wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't sound like a contradiction to me. A very small segment of users are 'pro-level' users. Now yes, it isn't supported, but if you accept that as the reality then it is not contradictory.

I think the whole 'pro-user' description needs examined a bit. Tons of developers at companies use macbook airs which are far less powerful than the newest laptops. Ex: Rob Pike uses a macbook air. Is he not a professional? There's a huge range of needs even within the pro user camp and I'd posit that the majority of them will be well served by the new Macs. If you're doing game development I'd argue Apple hasn't mad…

Nobody is claming that your're not a professional because you don't need a Mac Pro. Of course the majority of pro tasks will be served by the new Mac laptops. But that's not what we're discussing here.

For the ones that need more performance, it can be a dealbreaker to go so long without updates.

For the ones that have their needs are met today, there's a very clear signal now that if your needs ever grow, Apple won't be there to meet them.

Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#115

Post by davidron »

zigzigzag wrote: post #57
Chyzwar wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux is already superior for developers. You servers all running Linux, all dev tools are first released in Linux, everything just work with most hardware. For professional like video editing, photography, CADs, audio etc Windows is better when you can buy better hardware for the same price as Mac. There is no reason to by Mac when most hardware is terribly outdated and you don't know when next upgrade will happen.

If that's true why do I see so many developers using Macs? Desktop Linux is a mess and always has been. The problem is structural. The people making it don't have any profit motive to make it better. They're all either volunteers having fun or subsidised by server products.

>If that's true why do I see so many developers using Macs? There are lots of developers who use Apple hardware with linux. Even Linus (at least as of 2012)! http://www.cultofmac.com/162823/linux-creator-linus-torvalds...

> Desktop Linux is a mess and always has been. The problem is structural. The people making it don't have any profit motive to make it better. They're all either volunteers having fun or subsidised by server products.

It sounds like you are saying there is a direct relationship between the quality ("betterness") of software and a profit motive to create that software and that there is no profit motive to make Desktop Linux better. I see two flaws with that argument:

1. You posit that there is zero profit motive to make it better, then there should be zero quality of the Linux Desktop. Certainly, you can't be saying that there exists nothing worse than Desktop Linux, even conceptually.

2. This argument, if I understand it correctly, also implies that it's impossible for an application to be "better" or "good" that has no profit motive. This would include all of the open source utilities, text editors, programming languages, compilers, games, emulators, and other applications - many of which ship with every single Mac on the market.

Those two reasons make your argument logically inconsistent, I think.

But, even if your argument were logically consistent, I believe that there is a profit motive to make it better. Some people, including myself, derive non-monetary profit from building something useful and we find that the open-source model allows us to collaborate on these things because they are too complex or time consuming to do alone. The fact that there actually exists a profit motive makes your argument factually inconsistent as well.

Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#116

Post by pavlov »

stock_toaster wrote: post #67
jasonjei wrote: post #52

I see a lot of parallels of Tim Cook's Apple to John Sculley's Apple. Tim Cook's, like John Sculley's, is focused on immediate short-term bottom line improvements rather than long-term investments. John Sculley kept staying the course, and Tim Cook is doing much of the same. If anything, the most recent iteration of MBP is sidelining serious developers and content producers. So yes, Apple's bottom line is growing. Lo…

I don't know. R&D has seen big increases[1] (from around $3B under Jobs to now around $12B) in spend under Cook. I don't know that doing that lines up with a "focus on immediate short-term bottom line improvements rather than long-term investments". [1]: http://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2016/5/11/apple-rd-reveals-... (linked for the graphs, not the article's hypothesis)

Nokia's R&D spending in 2007 was 5.64 billion EUR, while Apple spent 0.78 billion USD in the same year.

If anything, exploding R&D expenses may be a sign of an unfocussed product organization.

Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#117

Post by threeseed »

jasonjei wrote: post #93
trurl wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really think too many people are making a big deal of the TouchBar. I'm a vim user, and when the first rumors of it surfaced earlier this year I switched ESC to capslock and after a day or so adapted just fine. I don't know that I really need any of the things TouchBar offers, but it seems to be unreasonably vilified without no one actually using it. For me the key issue is the performance, which no amount of key r…

I'm just wondering how one will install certain OSes if the Func keys aren't usable during OS install in Boot Camp. I don't remember being able to remap an installer hotkeys easily. Maybe Apple doesn't want that demographic, or perhaps we'll have to connect a USB-C keyboard. Boot Camp drivers are also terribly out of date.

Boot Camp has already been addressed though. The function keys will be shown and since Touch Bar is running WatchOS it should be easily possible to show them without drivers.

Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#118

Post by mcintyre1994 »

threeseed wrote: post #102
matwood wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've chosen to view this update as the start of the uptick where we go back to regular updates (perhaps with a longer period than historically) and more exciting things to come. I want to think this, but after years they release a TouchBar and I still can't get 32GB of ram. /sigh I think that people get too caught up in wanting revolutionary changes. Many would have been much happier with new MBPs being released re…

Intel is responsible for the lack of RAM not Apple.

How come everyone else is at 32GB now?

Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#119

Post by linguae »

jasonjei wrote: post #52

I see a lot of parallels of Tim Cook's Apple to John Sculley's Apple. Tim Cook's, like John Sculley's, is focused on immediate short-term bottom line improvements rather than long-term investments. John Sculley kept staying the course, and Tim Cook is doing much of the same. If anything, the most recent iteration of MBP is sidelining serious developers and content producers. So yes, Apple's bottom line is growing. Lo…

I have a different view regarding the John Sculley era. It was under Sculley where the Mac transformed from a sealed box to an expandable machine when the Mac II was released in 1987. Under the Sculley era there were many impressive Macs, such as the Macintosh SE/30, the Mac Color Classic, the Mac IIfx, the Macintosh Portable, the Macintosh Quadra, and the original PowerBook. In my opinion, the hardware was wonderful during the Sculley era. What dogged Apple from the latter half of the Sculley era until the purchase of NeXT during the Gil Amelio era was the inability of Apple to buckle down and ship a successor to the classic Mac OS (look up the history of Pink/Taligent and Copland). Apple's hardware didn't start suffering until 1995 when Apple had a disastrous year (the infamous PowerBook 5300 exploding battery scandal, the much maligned Performa 5200/6200 series, Apple's inability to release an OS that successfully competed against Windows 95, and the rise of Mac clones that ended up hurting Apple's marketshare).

The John Sculley era was largely one of investment in the Mac, although the unfortunate thing was the failure of the Pink/Taligent project, which could have given Apple an advanced operating system as early as, say, 1993 or 1994 had development gone better. Unfortunately I can't say the same about the Tim Cook era, where the Mac has transformed from a platform dedicated to creative professionals, power users and developers to a platform that caters solely to casual users and doesn't provide the performance, upgradeability, and expandability that long-time Mac users need. Also, under Tim Cook the Mac has increasingly deviated from the longstanding Apple Human Interface Guidelines that made the Mac such a pleasure to use all these years. While the Mac experience is still miles ahead of Windows and many Linux desktops, it's increasingly not the same as it used to be.

Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#120

Post by paulddraper »

threeseed wrote: post #110
jasonjei wrote: post #52

I see a lot of parallels of Tim Cook's Apple to John Sculley's Apple. Tim Cook's, like John Sculley's, is focused on immediate short-term bottom line improvements rather than long-term investments. John Sculley kept staying the course, and Tim Cook is doing much of the same. If anything, the most recent iteration of MBP is sidelining serious developers and content producers. So yes, Apple's bottom line is growing. Lo…

This makes no sense. The Apple Watch is absolutely a long term play. Right now it's a fraction of what they want it to be ie. the saviour of the health care industry. And given the regulatory requirements of playing in this space you need to play the long game.

How will a watch "save" health care?
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