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The Mac Platform Decline

milen.me

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Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#61

Post by dictum »

monkmartinez wrote: post #37
taylodl wrote: post #23

Is it too much to ask to wait until we get the actual machines in our hands and use them for 30 days before deciding our verdict? Maybe they suck. Maybe they don't.

You don't need a "hands on" nor 30 days to realize 16gb of RAM isn't going to be enough for the CAPEX of a $2500 to $4000 dollar machine over the span of (hopefully) 3+ years. That is just one example... there are many more.

The one upside of this MBP generation is that it will force Apple to milk every last drop of performance in future macOS updates.

(I'm still running 10.11, hope 10.12 is still stable)

Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#62

Post by scotu »

remir wrote: post #36
ascendantlogic wrote: post #16

"It will be a switch from iOS developers using Macs at home to them using PCs at home and having a "work Mac" for commercial development." This is exactly what gave rise to the Mac and OSX in the last 10-15 years. People worked on Windows PCs "at work" but had Macs for personal development. Now I'm witnessing the exact same scenario play out now that Apple is the market behemoth amongst power users and developers. Do…

There could be a third option "soon"; Fuchsia, the new OS Google is developing. From what I see, it seems like a modular OS running Flutter apps, with Material Design as the system's UI. Google has folks who worked on BeOS, Danger, iOS, ChromeOS and Android working on this new OS.

quite a list! a question that begs being asked: did they intentionally not hire anybody that touched windows or was it by chance?

Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#63

Post by zepto »

jasonjei wrote: post #52

I see a lot of parallels of Tim Cook's Apple to John Sculley's Apple. Tim Cook's, like John Sculley's, is focused on immediate short-term bottom line improvements rather than long-term investments. John Sculley kept staying the course, and Tim Cook is doing much of the same. If anything, the most recent iteration of MBP is sidelining serious developers and content producers. So yes, Apple's bottom line is growing. Lo…

I keep seeing people say things about how the Mac is sidelining serious developers and content producers, but I haven't seen any actual argument as to why this is so. Can you explain?

Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#64

Post by spdy »

zigzigzag wrote: post #57
Chyzwar wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux is already superior for developers. You servers all running Linux, all dev tools are first released in Linux, everything just work with most hardware. For professional like video editing, photography, CADs, audio etc Windows is better when you can buy better hardware for the same price as Mac. There is no reason to by Mac when most hardware is terribly outdated and you don't know when next upgrade will happen.

If that's true why do I see so many developers using Macs? Desktop Linux is a mess and always has been. The problem is structural. The people making it don't have any profit motive to make it better. They're all either volunteers having fun or subsidised by server products.

Dont know i switch to arch linux and i3wm last year on my mbp and i dont want to go back. Same goes for the newest mbp in its current state i will buy another brand probably a surface when my mbp dies.

Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#65

Post by lloeki »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #49
CalChris wrote: post #30

I bought an SE rather than a 7. Size is a better fit for me and I still use the audio jack. A lot. So Apple had an upgrade path for me. But with the new MacBook Pro, they cut out USB-A. If they'd kept it on the entry level model, that'd be my upgrade path. Instead, I'll eek out maybe a couple more years on my current MBP. BTW, I'm not sure at all why they ditched MagSafe. They did all this and kept the RCA port. Now…

I think the losses of Magsafe and the 3.5" headphone socket will go down as the point Apple finally lost it. Magsafe was such a perfect example of Apple doing small innovation, utterly brilliantly; if they've ditched it purely to save half a millimetre off thickness, it's all the proof I need that the lunatics have taken over.

Magsafe was genius but had known reliability issues on the long run, making charging increasingly finicky with time.

Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#66

Post by jarjoura »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #34
IBM wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The speculation doesn't even make sense because Apple is structured as a functional organization, not around product lines. Schiller and Federighi aren't in charge of Macs so they don't have to fight Cook for resources. When Marco claims (without any evidence) that Schiller or Federighi are the champions for the Mac internally, he's projecting his values on to them because he's created some narrative in his head abou…

Ah I see you've also read the stratechery article about apple's structure :-) I think it's pretty clear from the WWDC Gruber interview panel that the execs who love the Mac are Schiller and Federighi but you're right that it's speculation. Either way, we can be negative and whinge or take this update as a glimmer of hope - because whatever we choose to do Apple aren't paying us any attention on HN!

They all read these comments silently, and I have a few friends who feel burned by all the negative press. Some have spent a really long time and many hours on this latest laptop.

There's definitely a camp inside the company who believe windows should take the pros back as they were burned by the whole Final Cut Pro rewrite fiasco. There's also a camp who want to see the MacPro continue on and understand brand mindshare is the most important thing for Apple.

Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#67

Post by stock_toaster »

jasonjei wrote: post #52

I see a lot of parallels of Tim Cook's Apple to John Sculley's Apple. Tim Cook's, like John Sculley's, is focused on immediate short-term bottom line improvements rather than long-term investments. John Sculley kept staying the course, and Tim Cook is doing much of the same. If anything, the most recent iteration of MBP is sidelining serious developers and content producers. So yes, Apple's bottom line is growing. Lo…

I don't know. R&D has seen big increases[1] (from around $3B under Jobs to now around $12B) in spend under Cook. I don't know that doing that lines up with a "focus on immediate short-term bottom line improvements rather than long-term investments".

[1]: http://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2016/5/11/apple-rd-reveals-... (linked for the graphs, not the article's hypothesis)

Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#68

Post by matwood »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #5

I agree that the mac platform seems to have been neglected but Tim Cook isn't stupid, he knows that without developers the iPad isn't going to grow how he wants so I don't think this is the end of the Mac. I think Tim Cook has ignored the Mac in favour of his favourite projects but in the meantime Schiller and Federighi have been making sure the Mac is in his periphery and fighting for resources. I've chosen to view…

> I've chosen to view this update as the start of the uptick where we go back to regular updates (perhaps with a longer period than historically) and more exciting things to come.

I want to think this, but after years they release a TouchBar and I still can't get 32GB of ram. /sigh

I think that people get too caught up in wanting revolutionary changes. Many would have been much happier with new MBPs being released regularly with Intel's updates and standard more/better RAM, screen, battery life.

Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#69

Post by trurl »

zepto wrote: post #63
jasonjei wrote: post #52

I see a lot of parallels of Tim Cook's Apple to John Sculley's Apple. Tim Cook's, like John Sculley's, is focused on immediate short-term bottom line improvements rather than long-term investments. John Sculley kept staying the course, and Tim Cook is doing much of the same. If anything, the most recent iteration of MBP is sidelining serious developers and content producers. So yes, Apple's bottom line is growing. Lo…

I keep seeing people say things about how the Mac is sidelining serious developers and content producers, but I haven't seen any actual argument as to why this is so. Can you explain?

Because serious developers require computers with more horsepower (CPU, GPU, memory, etc.) than Apple is providing?

16GB is nowhere near enough for my work. And I can't seriously justify buying a iMac or MacPro at this point when their hardware is so out of date.

Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#70

Post by monkmartinez »

zigzigzag wrote: post #57
Chyzwar wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux is already superior for developers. You servers all running Linux, all dev tools are first released in Linux, everything just work with most hardware. For professional like video editing, photography, CADs, audio etc Windows is better when you can buy better hardware for the same price as Mac. There is no reason to by Mac when most hardware is terribly outdated and you don't know when next upgrade will happen.

If that's true why do I see so many developers using Macs? Desktop Linux is a mess and always has been. The problem is structural. The people making it don't have any profit motive to make it better. They're all either volunteers having fun or subsidised by server products.

> If that's true why do I see so many developers using Macs?

Because, until recently, Apple catered to professional users. The openly hostile act of soldering of RAM, addiction to thin, and buggy OS releases, etc. are relatively new developments in Apple hx.

> Desktop Linux is a mess and always has been. The problem is structural.

I posit that all OS's are a mess. Some are messier than others but most of them are filled to the brim with bugs... macOS definitely included.

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