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China’s plan to organize its society relies on ‘big data’ to rate everyone

washingtonpost.com

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Re: China’s plan to organize its society relies on ‘big data’ to rate everyone

#51

Post by 11thEarlOfMar »

My concern is that China will use the scoring to make moral judgments about citizens. Yes, we have credit scores and DMV scores and some of us wind up on white lists (PreCheck) or black lists (No-Fly) for air travel.

But determining business risk is different from determining whether someone is a moral or immoral person, and then using that subjectivity to control the population. It's value to the regime is in that subjectivity: If you threaten my political aspirations, I'll score you as immoral, report your transgressions on the nightly news and toss you in prison to be reprogrammed.

The US separates church and state to prevent this.

Re: China’s plan to organize its society relies on ‘big data’ to rate everyone

#52

Post by rosser »

aub3bhat wrote: post #2

I just finished watching the Nosedive (Season 3, episode 1) from Black Mirror on Netflix, it shows a similar system. Unlike other Black Mirror episodes its quite well balanced. I would highly highly recommend watching it.

I just finished watching it myself, after having seen it mentioned in your comment. I found it profoundly heavy-handed, and, unlike pretty much every other episode of the series I've seen so far, I didn't enjoy it at all.

Re: China’s plan to organize its society relies on ‘big data’ to rate everyone

#53

Post by hilop »

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #51

My concern is that China will use the scoring to make moral judgments about citizens. Yes, we have credit scores and DMV scores and some of us wind up on white lists (PreCheck) or black lists (No-Fly) for air travel. But determining business risk is different from determining whether someone is a moral or immoral person, and then using that subjectivity to control the population. It's value to the regime is in that s…

What does church have to do with this? We can throw people in jail for "corruption"

Re: China’s plan to organize its society relies on ‘big data’ to rate everyone

#54

Post by hilop »

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #17
dkarapetyan wrote: post #4

This is what the DMV does with the point system. The FBI and CIA I think also collect statistics and profile relevant individuals. The difference I guess is that most of these systems are in separate silos. The Chinese government is taking the next logical step and linking it all together. Reminds me of a quote Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they shoul…

DMV tracking whether you are driving drunk is not the same as the Chinese govt. tracking whether you praise the govt. on Facebook. > The FBI and CIA I think also collect statistics and profile relevant individuals. Citation needed (especially that they do it for everyone).

> > relevant individuals

Re: China’s plan to organize its society relies on ‘big data’ to rate everyone

#56

Post by hilop »

dkarapetyan wrote: post #26
an_account wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not be okay with my company rating me based on ML computed metrics of my performance based on everything that I do in (and out?) of the office

How is a credit rating different from citizenship rating? Your buying patterns reveal an awful lot. Why is one ok and the other isn't?

Credit ratings are about how risky it is to lend you money, not where you are allowed to live, drive, and work.

Re: China’s plan to organize its society relies on ‘big data’ to rate everyone

#57

Post by hilop »

arjie wrote: post #31
daodedickinson wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait Airbnb is gonna discriminate against me because I boycott Facebook?

Not Airbnb. Your potential hosts. Airbnb allows you to provide multiple means of proving you're reasonable. Linking your FB profile is one way. Airbnb will then show the number of friends you have. This may have changed since when I signed up years ago. It's just like your GitHub is a reputation aid when applying for a job. It's not required but what you have on there can help. EDIT: In case it isn't clear, I'm not c…

"number of friends"? That's stupidly gameable

Re: China’s plan to organize its society relies on ‘big data’ to rate everyone

#58

Post by hilop »

chinese_dan wrote: post #39
arjie wrote: post #18

Well, this is bad because it's the Chinese government. But companies like Airbnb have to use proxy metrics like number of Facebook friends. If I could be proven to be the trustworthy person I am, then a host wouldn't need to look at all that. If I'm known to have destroyed someone's home, then someone else on Turo knows better than to rent to me. In practice, it's likely to turn into an eBay style "A++++ best person…

You're insane. This is about having full control over the population. Imagine a world where saying something bad about a company like Airbnb means you won't get a loan from the bank because the owner is a communist party member and your worthiness score is now reduced to an unacceptable level. This is a bad idea not because it's the Chinese government. The Chinese government is bad and this is just one more terrible…

Hey, in China being a member of the Communist Party helps you get a loan.

Re: China’s plan to organize its society relies on ‘big data’ to rate everyone

#59

Post by hilop »

gjolund wrote: post #16

Lets all pretend that the US won't be doing this in 10 years. Facebook/Google are already working with credit agencies and law enforcement. We make China out to be the big bad guy, but all they do is follow our example.

Credit agencies?

Re: China’s plan to organize its society relies on ‘big data’ to rate everyone

#60

Post by pamparosendo »

"Imagine a world where an X government monitors everything you do, amasses huge amounts of data on almost every interaction you make, and awards you a single score that measures how “trustworthy” you are."

What country is he talking about?

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