China’s plan to organize its society relies on ‘big data’ to rate everyone • Hacker News Board

Re: China’s plan to organize its society relies on ‘big data’ to rate everyone

#21

Post by eyjfndykhx » Sun, Oct 23, 2016, 2:19 AM UTC

arjie wrote: post #18

Well, this is bad because it's the Chinese government. But companies like Airbnb have to use proxy metrics like number of Facebook friends. If I could be proven to be the trustworthy person I am, then a host wouldn't need to look at all that. If I'm known to have destroyed someone's home, then someone else on Turo knows better than to rent to me. In practice, it's likely to turn into an eBay style "A++++ best person…

>Well, this is bad because it's the Chinese government.

Follow up question: would this be good because it was by the US government?

Re: China’s plan to organize its society relies on ‘big data’ to rate everyone

#22

Post by anexprogrammer » Sun, Oct 23, 2016, 2:20 AM UTC

aub3bhat wrote: post #2

I just finished watching the Nosedive (Season 3, episode 1) from Black Mirror on Netflix, it shows a similar system. Unlike other Black Mirror episodes its quite well balanced. I would highly highly recommend watching it.

I watched it last night and was struck by how much impact had been lost by Netflix transition. OK they were clearly going for humour, but even with bigger production, and good acting the longer running time diluted it so much. We didn't need the star rating explained every 2 mins for the first 20.

Though I think it was that one that's based on a Charlie Brooker story, rather than written by.

I actually paused after to decide if I was going to bother with the rest at all. 2nd episode (as far as I've got) was much better.

Re: China’s plan to organize its society relies on ‘big data’ to rate everyone

#23

Post by michaelcampbell » Sun, Oct 23, 2016, 2:22 AM UTC

I'm halfway through "Weapons of Math Destruction", and this sort of thing is really, really scary. If the amount of damage done in the US already with big data models, with a much narrower focus, for smaller consequences, and ostensibly "good" purposes is any indication, this will be incredibly harmful.

Re: China’s plan to organize its society relies on ‘big data’ to rate everyone

#24

Post by gragas » Sun, Oct 23, 2016, 2:24 AM UTC

How incredibly dystopian of you, China. This is also pretty funny considering it is exactly the premise the first episode of the new Black Mirror season.

Re: China’s plan to organize its society relies on ‘big data’ to rate everyone

#25

Post by daodedickinson » Sun, Oct 23, 2016, 2:27 AM UTC

arjie wrote: post #18

Well, this is bad because it's the Chinese government. But companies like Airbnb have to use proxy metrics like number of Facebook friends. If I could be proven to be the trustworthy person I am, then a host wouldn't need to look at all that. If I'm known to have destroyed someone's home, then someone else on Turo knows better than to rent to me. In practice, it's likely to turn into an eBay style "A++++ best person…

Wait Airbnb is gonna discriminate against me because I boycott Facebook?

Re: China’s plan to organize its society relies on ‘big data’ to rate everyone

#26

Post by dkarapetyan » Sun, Oct 23, 2016, 2:27 AM UTC

an_account wrote: post #20

dkarapetyan wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but on the spectrum of tracking data where exactly are you going to draw the line? I'm not saying I agree with what they are doing but clearly these kinds of systems already exist. This kind of reward and punishment system exists pretty much in any large enough organization. What is an internal review and promotion system if not some kind of systematic tracking of data to reward "good" behavior? If the Chinese g…

I would not be okay with my company rating me based on ML computed metrics of my performance based on everything that I do in (and out?) of the office

How is a credit rating different from citizenship rating? Your buying patterns reveal an awful lot. Why is one ok and the other isn't?

Re: China’s plan to organize its society relies on ‘big data’ to rate everyone

#27

Post by dkarapetyan » Sun, Oct 23, 2016, 2:28 AM UTC

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #17

dkarapetyan wrote: post #4

This is what the DMV does with the point system. The FBI and CIA I think also collect statistics and profile relevant individuals. The difference I guess is that most of these systems are in separate silos. The Chinese government is taking the next logical step and linking it all together. Reminds me of a quote Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they shoul…

DMV tracking whether you are driving drunk is not the same as the Chinese govt. tracking whether you praise the govt. on Facebook. > The FBI and CIA I think also collect statistics and profile relevant individuals. Citation needed (especially that they do it for everyone).

I didn't say everyone but going by all the leaked documents on various surveilance programs what other citations do you need?

Re: China’s plan to organize its society relies on ‘big data’ to rate everyone

#28

Post by daodedickinson » Sun, Oct 23, 2016, 2:29 AM UTC

berntb wrote: post #6

As I understand it, the reason the world have become more democratic and liberal for generations was because freedom made a society work better. The open societies out competed the closed ones. If this model really works for China and other non democracies, so they can keep a liberal economy and still control people hard politically, then: 1984, here we come. :-(

It really does seem like, with so much distraction and so little necessity, we're nearing the end of the democratic stage of the cycle, where people use freedom chaotically.

Re: China’s plan to organize its society relies on ‘big data’ to rate everyone

#29

Post by paulryanrogers » Sun, Oct 23, 2016, 2:32 AM UTC

eyjfndykhx wrote: post #21

arjie wrote: post #18

Well, this is bad because it's the Chinese government. But companies like Airbnb have to use proxy metrics like number of Facebook friends. If I could be proven to be the trustworthy person I am, then a host wouldn't need to look at all that. If I'm known to have destroyed someone's home, then someone else on Turo knows better than to rent to me. In practice, it's likely to turn into an eBay style "A++++ best person…

>Well, this is bad because it's the Chinese government. Follow up question: would this be good because it was by the US government?

No! Too much power and information in one place is always bad

Re: China’s plan to organize its society relies on ‘big data’ to rate everyone

#30

Post by arjie » Sun, Oct 23, 2016, 2:34 AM UTC

eyjfndykhx wrote: post #21

arjie wrote: post #18

Well, this is bad because it's the Chinese government. But companies like Airbnb have to use proxy metrics like number of Facebook friends. If I could be proven to be the trustworthy person I am, then a host wouldn't need to look at all that. If I'm known to have destroyed someone's home, then someone else on Turo knows better than to rent to me. In practice, it's likely to turn into an eBay style "A++++ best person…

>Well, this is bad because it's the Chinese government. Follow up question: would this be good because it was by the US government?

I'm not in favour of this being administered by governments but I'd like it to be based on a government-issued identification number. Like if we split the identification and authentication roles of the SSN into two separate numbers. Then I'd like it to be based off the identifier portion.