Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

tesla.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

391–400 of 1001 posts

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#391

Post by forgetsusername »

simonsarris wrote: post #18

How interesting. So up-coming Tesla drivers temporarily won't get fancy features. For a time, new Tesla buyers again become early adopters. But unlike traditional early adopters, who take a trade-off (on price, or features, or polish) for being first, these adopters are promised the features when they are ready. The nay-saying around Tesla is immense, even in these early HN comments. Obviously there's some risk here,…

>The nay-saying around Tesla is immense

You have to be kidding. The Tesla cheer-leading is immense. This is a competitive space within which Tesla might be a leader, but you make it sound as if everyone else around them is stagnant.

The majors are building this stuff, the large tech companies are building this stuff, and even big component providers are building this stuff. This is obvious if you look outside of the SV echo chamber.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#392

Post by MertsA »

dabeeeenster wrote: post #338
svantana wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only problem is, Tesla's sensor suite is too weak to ever get to full autonomy. So once they upgrade the sensors, what good is the data from the old sensors? Perhaps it's possible to extrapolate the data somehow, to have a database of "situations" rather than actual sensor data?

Your sensor suite is two cameras below the level of the rear view mirror and two microphones.

And look at how many accidents that causes. We also have a highly refined system to process that input and from the looks of it, this is a very hard problem to solve with a computer. I don't think stereoscopic vision and a few microphones can ever beat a human driver on average for all types edge cases without creating a good artificial general intelligence first.

I think a combination of LIDAR and cameras is probably going to be required for a truly autonomous car, at least for the first decade or two.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#393

Post by makomk »

marricks wrote: post #2

Quite interesting that while this is happening, > Tesla's with new hardware will temporarily lack certain features currently available on Teslas with first-generation Autopilot hardware Which makes sense, as they'll be pulling in all that new data from the sensors. I guess people won't be too disappointed owning a car that will eventually be able to be fully autonomous!

"including some standard safety features such as automatic emergency braking, collision warning, lane holding and active cruise control". They're shipping without features that are commonplace, probably even expected, on premium cars these days.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#394

Post by noselasd »

Animats wrote: post #211
luma wrote: post #91

I think what people are missing here is an understanding of how these systems are tested and deployed at scale. While I have no involvement with Tesla I do have first-hand knowledge of similar programs at tier 1 automotive suppliers. The suppliers provide (or are looking to provide) an electronics suite to car manufacturers. The car manufacturers want the system to be safe lest they be sued out of existence. One part…

Of course, Tesla acts like it owns that data. Their privacy policy permits them to monitor your vehicle unless you opt out. But there's no reason you can't download that data yourself, if you can figure out how to do so. Does anybody make an antenna-level middle box for GSM phones? Something you hook into the antenna cable as a firewall/monitor?

I would be surprised if Tesla backhauls their data over anything but a TLS connection (even if they only need GPRS connectivity). - thus making a middlebox useless.

Besides products sold to governments agencies, the only 2 options I know of to make a GSM middlebox are OpenBTS or the osmocom stack.

You'd probably have better luck getting at that data through onboard diagnostic ports or the like.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#395

Post by davidiach »

dagw wrote: post #372
doikor wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will be a long time before Teslas can drive on dirt roads or roads covered in snow. But most daily driving happens on pavement either on the highway or in the city. Both of which it already handles quite well and will just get better.

The reason most people can handle driving on shitty dirt roads, in snow and other "uncommon" situations is because they've first logged thousands of hours of practice driving under more normal conditions. Remove that experience and routine and why would you expect them to have any idea what to do in those tricky situations where the AI fails on them?

That's not the case. Children can learn how to drive in snow or dirt roads in a matter of hours. Learning to drive on public roads has more to do with learning the rules than learning to drive a car per se.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#396

Post by forgetsusername »

elchief wrote: post #61

Wow, what a bunch of negative nellies on here. I hope you people have mildly unpleasant evenings. Congrats Tesla! That's amazing.

>Congrats Tesla! That's amazing.

Can you describe what's so amazing about it? They're planning to put temporarily non-functional autonomous driving hardware on their new cars, with the intention to use it when the software is ready at some unknown point in the future.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#397

Post by teddyh »

varjag wrote: post #373
rasz_pl wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually you DO own it in EU, and can do whatever you like with it (borrow, sell).

..but not rideshare on autopilot. It's not unprecedented to have severe restrictions on software in EU. E.g. you can't use le Windows you legally obtained in France on two PCs simultaneously. Some vendors charge per-CPU/core licenses, some network software (e.g. certain PABX) charge even by the number of connected endpoints.

That is probably because in order to install Windows on even one PC (let alone two), you have to make a copy of it. Even if an installation is (somehow) not counted as copying, two identical installations is clearly implying a copy has been made somehow. And copyright means you don’t have permission to copy the software. Therefore, you have to have permission to copy it. Another word for permission is “license”, and the license explicitly says under which conditions you are allowed to copy it.

A car, on the other hand, is not copied after purchase, so a copyright license is not relevant. A “license” (as stated above) is not a general list of conditions you have to agree on; it is simply a list of permissions for you to do what copyright law (and trademark law, etc.) would otherwise not allow you to do. No such law restricts what a buyer is allowed to do with a car after a purchase is made, unless a contract is signed. A contract can state arbitrary restrictions, but for something to be a contract, it has to fulfill a number of conditions: it must be knowingly and willingly entered into by both parties, it must not be unilateral or even, in some jurisdictions, too beneficial to only one party. Clearly your standard so-called “license agreement” does not qualify. Ideally, and usually, a contract is something on paper which both parties sign. Do you sign such a thing when “buying” a Tesla? If so, does this contract allow resale? Does the contract require the reseller to require the second-hand buyer to also sign it?

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#398

Post by forgetsusername »

marricks wrote: post #86
thesimon wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It gives them time to confirm a new technology and update their maps of areas with information from the new wavelengths they're just now gathering. Fair enough. I just tried to do a diff between the versions: Current implementation [0] * Camera module in the front * Front-facing Radar * 12 ultrasonic sensors New implementation: * 8 surround cameras * Front-facing radar * 12 ultrasonic sensors (updated) [0]: https:/…

What about the 40x faster processor with neural nets thrown in there somewhere? There's a bit more than just new cameras/sensors.

>neural nets thrown in there somewhere?

What techniques were they using to process the data before? Surely it was statistical learning. And if they weren't, their competitors certainly were.

Post reply on HN