All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware • Hacker News Board

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#351

Post by usrusr » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 9:32 AM UTC

timdorr wrote: post #129

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until it's tested in court, the legality of that restriction is highly questionable. (Which is not to say that you can ignore it with impunity. If you don't have the money for a multi-year lawsuit against a billionaire, you might not want to violate it.) Presuming that such "EULAs for cars" are not legally binding, the next step will be cars that simply will not do the "forbidden" action, because their software detec…

It's different because the self-driving doesn't entirely happen within the vehicle. Tesla maintains a road database to base driving decisions off of and it's assumed you obtain that information from the network. > Initially, the vehicle fleet will take no action except to note the position of road signs, bridges and other stationary objects, mapping the world according to radar. The car computer will then silently co…

> If several cars drive safely past a given radar object, whether Autopilot is turned on or off, then that object is added to the geocoded whitelist.

Slightly exaggerating of course, this means that if there are a few locals that routinely blast through a given stop sign, your future Tesla will happily do the same. So much for better safety through automated driving.

All those years marketing departments have preached about the "personality" of car brands, now we might finally get it (an aggregation of driving patterns of the worst of the brand's customers, if it was strictly a whitelist algorithm which I sure don't hope it is)

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#352

Post by emp_zealoth » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 9:38 AM UTC

irq11 wrote: post #345

MarkMc wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's probably enough for freeway driving under good conditions. It might rule out driving in fog or snow, but if the weather is OK then the sensor suite is probably enough for driving on any paved road. I think you are underestimating how quickly Tesla's AI software can improve. The AI will always be running and checking to see if the driver does anything unexpected. For example if you brake or swerve suddenly when…

"I think you're underestimating how quickly Tesla'a AI software can improve" Do you have any basis for that statement, other than that you like Elon Musk, and read an article about "big data" once? I have actual experience in this field. The parent is right: the sensors matter more than hypothetical gains from "big data". Because right now, sensors suck . There's a reason every serious player in this game is plopping…

I feel sad that actual sensible responses on HN are now downvoted mercilessly because they are not aboard the hype train/zeitgeist

What irq11 has said is valid and important. You cannot just handwave actual engineering problems with some buzzwords

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#353

Post by gnipgnip » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 9:38 AM UTC

jayjay71 wrote: post #149

maratd wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a better, but still weak sensor suite. All you have is two overlapping cameras with poor resolution and they let you behind the wheel, right? This is a software and processing hardware problem only . Human beings drive OK for the most part and we don't have lidar/radar/sonar/etc. With 8 cameras providing 360 vision and an advanced NVIDIA hardware suite, this problem is entirely solvable and this is a very re…

In theory, sure. But you're effectively saying computers have to process vision as well as humans, which some experts think is comparable to solving AI. I'm not saying Tesla won't make a lot of progress, but considering how many decades of research has gone into this very problem (I worked on it at Carnegie Mellon as a graduate student, and they've been doing it since the 80's) it will likely take longer than most pe…

Part of the problem I think is that the image is not fully used; I mean, generally these systems consist of a black-box routine that extracts interest points and then passes it onto to a SLAM routine, which inturn keeps an estimate of the car state and the interest point positions. There is no "physical" model of the world being inferred from images, and I imagine this makes things rather tricky (and also why a LIDAR is so much more useful).

AFAIK deep-learning hasn't really brought much change to this manner of doing things - the mapping part esp.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#354

Post by usrusr » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 9:39 AM UTC

Tempest1981 wrote: post #167

thesimon wrote: post #70

If you go to the order page of the Model S, it says for the "Full Self-Driving Hardware": >Please note also that using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year. Interesting decision.

Do you think that a) Tesla may want to enter that market on their own, or b) Tesla is worried that use in that market may sully their reputation if problems arise?

From their site: "doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year"

This does not leave much room for speculation regarding a), this is basically an announcement of intending to introduce "the Tesla Network" as a player in that market.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#355

Post by codeulike » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 9:49 AM UTC

Here's the video of it in action, an autonomous drive to the Tesla factory

https://www.tesla.com/videos/full-self-driving-hardware-all-...

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#356

Post by makomk » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 9:52 AM UTC

kpao wrote: post #113

detaro wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious, what is "take control at a moments notice" in seconds? From what I've read about aviation, situations where really fast, let's say It seems like an airliner flying at altitude has quite large safety margins compared to a car on a highway.

Tell that to a pilot who's had an autopilot failure where a servo went crazy all of a sudden. You better act quick, especially in low visibility situations, to turn it off, or pull the circuit breaker. It might happen a bit slower than in a car, but the consequences can be much more dramatic.

Errm, I'm pretty sure the car equivalent of that would result in the vehicle swerving towards the side of a bridge at 70+ MPH, with very little chance of reacting quickly enough to turn it off. A car on the highway really doesn't have that much in the way of safety margins.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#357

Post by grecy » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 9:57 AM UTC

rasz_pl wrote: post #182

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #7

> Teslas with new hardware will temporarily lack certain features currently available on Teslas with first-generation Autopilot hardware, including some standard safety features such as automatic emergency breaking, collision warning, lane holding and active cruise control. Not sure what to make of this. New buyers are getting less than current owners now, but expected to get much more later? I can't think of a prece…

Its not marketing decision, MobilEye dropped them, this is Teslas emergency plan.

> MobilEye dropped them

Do you know if MobileEye dropped them, or they chose to go with something else? How do you know?

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#358

Post by rejschaap » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 9:57 AM UTC

jsherwani wrote: post #349

The video is incredible: https://www.tesla.com/videos/full-self-driving-hardware-all-...

It's pretty cool. From a marketing perspective I think they shouldn't have sped up the video. I feel it makes the driving look a little dangerous.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#359

Post by mrkgnao » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 9:58 AM UTC

> While this is occurring, Teslas with new hardware will temporarily lack certain features currently available on Teslas with first-generation Autopilot hardware, including some standard safety features such as automatic emergency braking, collision warning, lane holding and active cruise control.

Um.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#360

Post by julochrobak » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 9:58 AM UTC

karyon wrote: post #307

yitchelle wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am going play devil's advocate here. In the future, would Telsa use these data for other purposes? ie after analysing the data, it finds that my driving behaviour risk and has a higher chance of accident. It could trigger high insurance premiums or restriction on which car I can purchase etc.

Let me play the devil's advocate here as well :) What exactly is the problem with punishing people for risky driving? Or rather, let them pay a corresponding premium to cover for the (statistically expected) higher damages they will cause? Keep in mind that driving behaviour is something the user has full control of, in contrast to e.g. disabilities, for which of course no insurance premium should be paid. I actually…

We should not be punishing people for something they will/might cause. The system should panish only people for something they have done already.

Otherwise, we should punish you with a speeding ticket, because you will sometime in the future with some probability exceed a speed limit. Would that be ok for you?