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Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

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Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#301

Post by wil421 »

snovv_crash wrote: post #282
wil421 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have all this things in the US. Sick leave is not counted in my vacation. Maternity leave is much longer than paternity. And is paid for in full at my company for a time. FMLA allows 12 weeks total but it can be unpaid. The main difference I've seen with the Europeans I work with is, they take big chunks off at a time in summer. They pay more taxes but have more time off. Most likely don't get full pay for Maternit…

I haven't seen any US companies offering 25 days of paid vacation a year, plus unlimited sick leave (doctors note required for more than 3 consecutive days), plus extra days off for personal emergencies eg children sick, death in family. All the money in SV could never make me go there if I never have time to spend it.

A quick google search and I can't find many places in Europe that offer 25 days, not including the national holidays.

If I include national holidays I get 22 days off. No set sick days unless you're out for more than 5 consecutive days.

I'm not sure why you'd move to SV, startup life's seems like hell.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#302

Post by pbhjpbhj »

ido wrote: post #290
yodsanklai wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you call cust sup in Europe, the service is way worst. I remember a sign at a Mac Donald's in New York that said something like "if the waiter doesn't smile, you get a free burger". In Europe you may not get the forced smile, but it doesn't mean the service is worse. Overall, I'd say the service is slightly better in the US, but you can see it's totally fake and I find it a little bit disturbing.

Having to wait a much longer time till waiters acknowledge you in the German-speaking countries is certainly a bigger part of it than the smiling or lack there of.

Is that just "design" of the culture though? If you're working 20% less of the time you've more time to relax; perhaps then you don't need to stress if you've a little more time to chat before your strudel arrives.

Personally I hate it when you've only just sat down and the waiter is asking what you want, especially if it's a big menu and you've arrived at a meal time.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#303

Post by tristor »

As an American currently working remotely while traveling in Europe I have seen some of this first hand. I think there's pros and cons to the aspects I've observed.

- Probably the most obvious is meals. In most European countries its not uncommon to take a 2-hour lunch break and to take 2-3 hours for dinner. But at the same time, the quality of food is higher, meals tend to be larger social affairs (not something you do alone), and slower more relaxed meals probably aid digestion. This contrasts sharply to the obsession with fast food/quick service meals in the US that are mostly taken alone and on the run. In some cases it was frustratingly difficult for me to find a restaurant with quick enough service that I wasn't feeling like I was letting my own team in the US down.

- Transportation is less car-centric. What this means though is that a lot of people have a longer, if somewhat more relaxed commute. For instance, rather than a 15-20 minute drive if you live "near work", you might have a 10 minute walk + 40 minute train/metro ride. Sure, you /could/ be working on the metro in theory, or checking emails on your phone while walking. But people don't, and in a way that's great. It gives you a few moments of wakefulness where you don't have to focus and you don't have to think about work.

- Holidays. I'm not really sure how this works out in small and broad technical teams like Operations. But it seems like given the amount of holiday time Europeans are granted and take that there's probably someone out on holidays on your team at any given moment. On the other hand, I imagine that there are less stress-related deaths in Europe.

These are all just my first-hand observations, I haven't really dug into the stats around it, but I can imagine how these and other factors could easily lead to an overall reduction in work hours or even productivity vs American workers. On the other hand, I've found Europeans tend to be healthier and happier than Americans, so maybe it's not such a big deal?

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#304

Post by romanovcode »

heisenbit wrote: post #244
jnmandal wrote: post #90

One crazy takeaway from this: Greeks work longer hours than Germans

Indeed. There are some odd numbers in these graphs which make me a bit skeptical of the conclusions.

The stereotype of lazy Greek is one of the most stupidest in EU.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#305

Post by papaf »

endisukaj wrote: post #217
RandomName2020 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's harder to move from a class to another compared to the US. Not true: social mobility in US is lower than in Europe and Canada.

> Not true: social mobility in US is lower than in Europe and Canada. I can't speak about Canada but I seriously doubt that social mobility is higher in Europe. Again, you can't generalize. It may be far easier to move from a class to another in Germany than for example Italy or France.

Another comparison of social mobility:

http://wrap.warwick.ac.uk/81/1/WRAP_Naylor_twerp_781.pdf

Mobility is lower in the U.S. than in the U.K., where it is lower again compared to t he Nordic countries. Persis- tence is greatest in the tails of the distributions and tends to be particularly high in the upper tails: though in the U.S. this is reversed with a particularl y high likelihood that sons of the poorest fathers will remain in the lowest earnings quintile . This is a challenge to the popu- lar notion of ’American exceptionalism’.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#306

Post by t0mbstone »

wmccullough wrote: post #260
kasey_junk wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm deeply considering going to live on a few acres and go full subsistence to avoid this rat race. Software isn't fun anymore, our generation probably won't retire. Have you ever actually worked on a farm? Its not fun either, its actual hard work. Most farmers don't retire either. The historical way this worked was as you got older your family helped more on the farm until one of them took over. You worked till yo…

So thanks for the lecture, but yes I actually have. I like communicating with people, so please don't patronize me as if I'm some child. Try actually having a dialog. Source: grew up on a farm. I have no desire to sit in a "cushy" job just because it is one. That lifestyle may be harder, but I strongly suspect I'd get to the end of my life with less regrets about the whole thing.

Spending your whole life doing back breaking hard work, tilling soil, planting seeds, hoeing weeds, harvesting, eating and sleeping. Rinse and repeat for years on end, with nothing to show for it except that you've managed to stay alive, all just to die of skin cancer at the age of 65 from being out in the sun all day (or from being around so much fertilizer and insecticide chemicals). Sounds fulfilling!

Source: I grew up on a farm, too.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#307

Post by fsloth »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #280
fsloth wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd claim in many european nations rising is motivated by percieved better chances to have a psychologically fullfilling career, rather than considerable improvement in finances - since the increases are not that thrillingly high. But does this make the urge to rise pointless? In my country (Finland), for instance we don't force anyone to live in the streets. IMO, this creates huge amount of value from second order n…

I agree completely. But doing something _only_ for the purpose of moving into a higher income bracket may indeed be pointless (or less desirable) in a more equal society. In such a society, any meaningful definition of social mobility has to include more than just income percentiles.

Personally, I would love to live in a communist society unless the workings of it were not proven completely impractical and incompatible with basic human instincts.

So, we probably need prices and actual money for resource optimization, with human-sized goals for individuals to aspire to. But how to optimize human condition is partly a separate question and requires placing some value on the life experiences of individuals disrespective of their economic status.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#308

Post by cloverich »

RandomName2020 wrote: post #300
cloverich wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Common knowledge is by definition not evidence. > The data for public salaries generally has very good availability in the Information age. The salaries don't seem particularly high, and in some cases (construction workers and bus drivers, top quarter) seem particularly low. Of course a lot more goes into job satisfaction than Salary but I agree, this is not common knowledge. http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs…

The point that BUS DRIVERS working for GOVERNMENT make better wages than BUS DRIVER working for PRIVATE sector. Not that bus drivers in general are rich people.

Ah. I think you've misread the comment in that case. The argument wasn't that the same job was typically better in private than government sector. It was that the types of jobs typically available in government (like the ones you mentioned) are viewed as less desirable in general, despite having good benefits, shorter hours, etc.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#309

Post by IshKebab »

ryandrake wrote: post #151
jackcosgrove wrote: post #88

Higher earning workers in the US work more hours than lower earning workers. "Between 1979 and 2002, the frequency of long work hours increased by 14.4 percentage points among the top quintile of wage earners, but fell by 6.7 percentage points in the lowest quintile." There are insinuations in this thread that the reason Americans work more hours is because the working poor have to work long hours to make ends meet.…

I work long hours because if I didn't there's a line of people outside the door who will.

That's why people invented unions and labour laws. Still amazes me that some states don't have to have a valid reason to fire you.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#310

Post by lg »

snovv_crash wrote: post #282
wil421 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have all this things in the US. Sick leave is not counted in my vacation. Maternity leave is much longer than paternity. And is paid for in full at my company for a time. FMLA allows 12 weeks total but it can be unpaid. The main difference I've seen with the Europeans I work with is, they take big chunks off at a time in summer. They pay more taxes but have more time off. Most likely don't get full pay for Maternit…

I haven't seen any US companies offering 25 days of paid vacation a year, plus unlimited sick leave (doctors note required for more than 3 consecutive days), plus extra days off for personal emergencies eg children sick, death in family. All the money in SV could never make me go there if I never have time to spend it.

google provides all of these benefits.
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