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Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

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Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#251

Post by dragandj »

ajmurmann wrote: post #85
creshal wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And you can still do that in Europe, no one is stopping you from working more. Well, unions do. But that's a good thing, it prevents a race to burnout.

Does that actually apply to every field? I've only worked briefly as a software developer in Germany and not full time, but I never got the impression that unions would realistically stop anyone in that field from working till midnight. If you are working as a factory worker for example that's of course a totally different story. However, I doubt that people in that kind of job regularly decide to put in a few extra…

In most developed EU countries, especially the happy Denmark, mr. Taxman will make sure that you see little marginal benefit of those longer hours.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#252

Post by dragandj »

drcross wrote: post #125
aianus wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is stopping you but why would you work 60 hours a week for some boring European company that only pays you EUR60k when you can work the same hours in SV on something interesting and make $150k+.

Because a house costs you 200k instead of 400k

Not in London, or Paris, or any of those places where there is some interesting work.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#254

Post by _benedict »

salmon30salmon wrote: post #242
ObeyTheGuts wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wow, are u saying states in usa have same level culture difference like european countries? just in spain alone we have 4 different OFFICIAL languages

If I walk into a government building in my state, I will pick up a pamphlet which has notices in English, Spanish, Russian, Vietnamese and Arabic. I can walk down a street and hear each of those languages being spoken. Are you really going to tell me that the Vietnamese experience in the United States is basically the same as the English experience? If so, please come visit on of the top 30 cities in the United State…

There is a huge distinction between an official language and a language that is in common use by an immigrant community. Within the UK there are far more than five commonly used immigrant languages, and many are not European - Health and Safety documents come in 18 languages - mostly not EU languages.

To compare your five supported languages with a country that has four official languages, and significant cultural diversity within those - and then the immigrant communities from many more equally varied nations - which is just one part of the 28 nation polity that was originally mentioned (which combined have 24 official languages at the EU level, and many more at the national level) - is just really quite silly.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#255

Post by [deleted] »

kasey_junk wrote: post #208
wmccullough wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm about to turn 31, and I make a decent salary as a Senior Software Engineer. I'm deeply considering going to live on a few acres and go full subsistence to avoid this rat race. Software isn't fun anymore, our generation probably won't retire. The worst part is that crippling medical bills and college loan repayment are destroying us financially. I think I'd be happier surviving what I can do myself than to keep do…

> I'm deeply considering going to live on a few acres and go full subsistence to avoid this rat race. Software isn't fun anymore, our generation probably won't retire. Have you ever actually worked on a farm? Its not fun either, its actual hard work. Most farmers don't retire either. The historical way this worked was as you got older your family helped more on the farm until one of them took over. You worked till yo…

[deleted]

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#256

Post by embiggen »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #100
untog wrote: post #9

I've worked in both Europe and the US, and in my opinion, US workers are far worse off for it. You earn more money in the US, you can advance faster, but you have next-to-no vacation time (and even when you do, you're still often expected to be reachable by e-mail), maternity/paternity leave is pitiful, and you have to pay large health insurance premiums, amongst other things. I know that isn't the case for everyone,…

To some extent, this is a choice many Americans intentionally make. There are many jobs that offer European-like benefits, working hours, and employment stability in the US (e.g. Federal government jobs and some companies) but these are frequently viewed as undesirable -- it is not a first choice for many people if circumstances offer something better. The tradeoffs tend to be similar to Europe if you take one of the…

    > To some extent, this is a choice many Americans
    > intentionally make.
Uhm, to what extent do they have a choice? Be super poor or work hard. Hmm..yes those are delightful "options" to get to "select".

But seriously, I don't see a realistic choice for most people. To have any decent level of security and stability in our lives, most of us have to work our asses off!

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#257

Post by embiggen »

thebspatrol wrote: post #196
matrix_escape wrote: post #168

I think its a lot more than 25%. In Sweden where I work, people are relaxed at their jobs. Coming in at 8.30 am and leaving at 4.30 pm with a full lunch break in the middle is normal. Taking a couple of coffee breaks or ping pong matches and chatting with collegues is normal. There is casual talk all day long and bosses are also leaving work early to pick up children, spend time with the family and just enjoy their l…

This is pretty standard in the US, especially if you don't work in some MegaCorp cog-in-the-machine type of situation. I think a good percentage of people working their asses off and working 60 hours a week are people who ARE actually successful. I don't blame them for turning work into a hobby.

What? Where are these 8:30-4:30-with-a-nice-long-lunch jobs?

In my experience, smaller (non bigcorp) companies have to fight to survive and don't have these luxuries..

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#258

Post by imron »

big_youth wrote: post #83
imron wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any other developed nation where you pay $300 a month for health insurance and it doesn't cover you for the first $10,000 of expenses?

Have anything beyond hyperbole? The highest healthcare costs per capita: US $8,713 Switzerland $6,325 Norway $5,862 Netherlands $5,131 Sweden $4,904 Expensive yes, but not extreme compared to some of the other richest European countries. http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2015/11/14/24-7...

> Have anything beyond hyperbole?

Out of all of the countries you listed as expensive, only the U.S. has a system where you can pay thousands a year in premiums and yet still get zero coverage for your first 10k in medical expenses.

It's not hyperbole. It's simply just a fact. Other countries might also have high healthcare costs per capita, but at least they get what they pay for, and at least you don't end up bankrupt due to unforeseen medical emergencies.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#259

Post by fsloth »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #200
jandrewrogers wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is only because "social mobility" is in terms of percentiles, which doesn't account for differences in income variance between countries. The US has anomalously high income variance, so large changes in absolute income can equate to relatively small changes in the percentile. To put it another way, if everyone made the same wage, an increase in salary of $1 would check the box for "social mobility" because it wo…

On the other hand, the incentive to rise above your parents' percentile is much less if that next percentile doesn't feel much better. At the end of the day, the difficulty with these comparisons is that social mobility measured in percentiles may be the same in a country where it is next to impossible to rise above your parents' social class as in a country where it is completely pointless to even want that.

I'd claim in many european nations rising is motivated by percieved better chances to have a psychologically fullfilling career, rather than considerable improvement in finances - since the increases are not that thrillingly high. But does this make the urge to rise pointless?

In my country (Finland), for instance we don't force anyone to live in the streets. IMO, this creates huge amount of value from second order network effects - better childhoods, better social stability, people are more employable (if we only had jobs). I hope we can still afford this amount of social wellfare after a few decades.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#260

Post by wmccullough »

kasey_junk wrote: post #208
wmccullough wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm about to turn 31, and I make a decent salary as a Senior Software Engineer. I'm deeply considering going to live on a few acres and go full subsistence to avoid this rat race. Software isn't fun anymore, our generation probably won't retire. The worst part is that crippling medical bills and college loan repayment are destroying us financially. I think I'd be happier surviving what I can do myself than to keep do…

> I'm deeply considering going to live on a few acres and go full subsistence to avoid this rat race. Software isn't fun anymore, our generation probably won't retire. Have you ever actually worked on a farm? Its not fun either, its actual hard work. Most farmers don't retire either. The historical way this worked was as you got older your family helped more on the farm until one of them took over. You worked till yo…

So thanks for the lecture, but yes I actually have. I like communicating with people, so please don't patronize me as if I'm some child. Try actually having a dialog.

Source: grew up on a farm.

I have no desire to sit in a "cushy" job just because it is one. That lifestyle may be harder, but I strongly suspect I'd get to the end of my life with less regrets about the whole thing.

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