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Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

bloomberg.com

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Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#201

Post by thebspatrol »

tyfon wrote: post #92
ythl wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because European governments take a lot more out of your salary before it reaches you in exchange for social services (pensions, healthcare, etc). Unlike America where you are expected to either drop a stack of bills just to see the doctor or die in the streets.

So let's compare tax rates in the US vs Norway where I live, arguably a "socialist bastion" according to the rest of the world! Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates Corporate tax Norway: 25% Corporate tax US: 35% Individual (Min/Max) Norway: 0%/46.9% Individual (Min/Max) US: 0%-3%/52.9% Payroll tax Norway: 0%-14.1% Payroll tax US: 20.2% VAT Norway: 10%-25% VAT US: 0%-11.725% The tax sy…

I'm not sure how researched on US taxation you are, however the posted numbers mean absolutely nothing.

The effective tax rates are incredibly low for the upper class. Miniscule.

The middle class pays on average around 25% in income tax.

The good news is this means there's an incredibly simple answer for why the US is underinsured and undereducated: the average american is not willing to pay the amount of money it costs to insure and educate the lower class.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#202

Post by Symbiote »

ajmurmann wrote: post #85
creshal wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And you can still do that in Europe, no one is stopping you from working more. Well, unions do. But that's a good thing, it prevents a race to burnout.

Does that actually apply to every field? I've only worked briefly as a software developer in Germany and not full time, but I never got the impression that unions would realistically stop anyone in that field from working till midnight. If you are working as a factory worker for example that's of course a totally different story. However, I doubt that people in that kind of job regularly decide to put in a few extra…

It's the EU Working Time directive.

You can work longer for yourself, but not for someone else.

http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=706&langId=en&intP...

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#203

Post by systemtest »

matrix_escape wrote: post #168

I think its a lot more than 25%. In Sweden where I work, people are relaxed at their jobs. Coming in at 8.30 am and leaving at 4.30 pm with a full lunch break in the middle is normal. Taking a couple of coffee breaks or ping pong matches and chatting with collegues is normal. There is casual talk all day long and bosses are also leaving work early to pick up children, spend time with the family and just enjoy their l…

Are you guys cool with starting at 10:00?

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#205

Post by jackcosgrove »

tastythrowaway2 wrote: post #169
jackcosgrove wrote: post #88

Higher earning workers in the US work more hours than lower earning workers. "Between 1979 and 2002, the frequency of long work hours increased by 14.4 percentage points among the top quintile of wage earners, but fell by 6.7 percentage points in the lowest quintile." There are insinuations in this thread that the reason Americans work more hours is because the working poor have to work long hours to make ends meet.…

there is a correlation but that does not mean the jobs are elastic. it is not reasonable to assume that higher paid workers can simply switch jobs or even career paths simply to trade available free time for lower compensation.

Yes it is reasonable. Bankers and consultants move to industry, lawyers and accountants move in house, engineers move to maintain legacy projects. People quit their careers and work for non-profits or become teachers. This happens all the time.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#206

Post by adrianN »

sharemywin wrote: post #131
AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leaving aside Wall-street the Tech Bubble where people work grueling hours in the hopes of becoming a millionaire, the rest of the US works grueling hours because they need to in order to eat, pay their rent, etc. Telling someone who is working 40+ hours in order to make ends meet that they need to "work less" is tantamount to telling them to become homeless and destitute.

The point to a more progressive tax system. If the goal is to maximize a number(GPD) then a less progressive tax system makes sense. If the goal is to maximize "total human happiness"(could use a better term here I know) you need a more progressive tax system.

I think the effects of the tax system on GDP and human happiness (defined how?) are still an open research topic.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#207

Post by brational »

untog wrote: post #9

I've worked in both Europe and the US, and in my opinion, US workers are far worse off for it. You earn more money in the US, you can advance faster, but you have next-to-no vacation time (and even when you do, you're still often expected to be reachable by e-mail), maternity/paternity leave is pitiful, and you have to pay large health insurance premiums, amongst other things. I know that isn't the case for everyone,…

Me too - for me the difference is early retirement isn't really feasible in Europe. The exception being maybe get a remote job in the US and then move. Haven't succeeded there yet.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#208

Post by kasey_junk »

wmccullough wrote: post #118
webaholic wrote: post #3

How happy are they working that extra 25%? They are richer, sure. But I don't think being rich is an indicator of your overall state. Looking at [1], you can see that people in european countries come out on top of the happiness index. One could argue that working less is actually better for productivity and overall happiness. [1] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-23/these-are-...

I'm about to turn 31, and I make a decent salary as a Senior Software Engineer. I'm deeply considering going to live on a few acres and go full subsistence to avoid this rat race. Software isn't fun anymore, our generation probably won't retire. The worst part is that crippling medical bills and college loan repayment are destroying us financially. I think I'd be happier surviving what I can do myself than to keep do…

> I'm deeply considering going to live on a few acres and go full subsistence to avoid this rat race. Software isn't fun anymore, our generation probably won't retire.

Have you ever actually worked on a farm? Its not fun either, its actual hard work. Most farmers don't retire either. The historical way this worked was as you got older your family helped more on the farm until one of them took over. You worked till you died though.

> The worst part is that crippling medical bills and college loan repayment are destroying us financially.

You think your medical bills are bad now, wait until you start dealing with industrial machinery and hard work. Not to mention the fact that your insurance will come out of your pocket directly instead of being employer provided. Your college loans are a pittance compared to what it would cost to buy an economically feasible farm in the USA right now.

> I think I'd be happier surviving what I can do myself than to keep doing this bullshit much longer.

I'd recommend trying it for a summer before you burn your bridges in Software (which for the record, might be the cushiest way to make a living of all time).

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#209

Post by ZoF »

matt4077 wrote: post #155
slavoingilizov wrote: post #97

In the U.S., more people over 65 are working than at any point in the past 50 years Also, more people over 65 are alive, compared to any point in the past 50 years. Inability to draw insight from data is the 2nd biggest problem of media these days (the first is the linkbait/profit/ad broken business model)

Yeah - they're talking percentages: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-13/-i-ll-neve... These complaints about the supposed incompetence and/or bias of today's journalism are really getting old, but thanks for highlighting how idiotic they sometimes are.

The bias and incompetence is getting old as well.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#210

Post by freelancezombie »

vinay427 wrote: post #17
ythl wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because European governments take a lot more out of your salary before it reaches you in exchange for social services (pensions, healthcare, etc). Unlike America where you are expected to either drop a stack of bills just to see the doctor or die in the streets.

About 90% of Americans overall have health insurance. Most full-time tech jobs in the US at the companies that would pay more than European salaries will include sufficient health insurance. I'm not sure who you're referring to dying in the streets because of a lack of medical treatment due to financial limitations.

90% have health insurance? Are you kidding me? I'd love to see where you pulled that figure from.
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