Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 279 posts

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#161

Post by jokoon »

reverend_gonzo wrote: post #43
jokoon wrote: post #27

I'm not even american, I'm french, 31, I have skills in programming (C++, php, python, and some math), did not obtain my degree, and I have never worked more than a month during all my life. I currently have the disability status, and I will soon train to be an army reservist. I regularly see a psychiatrist for therapy and took anti depressant for 4 years. The inactivity and the feeling of exclusion is soul-killing (…

Maybe I'm missing something here, but you seem to contradict yourself: The inactivity and the feeling of exclusion is soul-killing The simple idea of idleness and staying at home to paint or draw seems to drive people crazy. If you're happy sitting at home and drawing, and you can pay your bills and survive in that manner, more power to you, but it seems you're not happy doing that. From what you write, it seems that…

Sure I contradict myself, and I know that.

My issue is how people have been transformed into labor machines. Being rated by a salary is meek metric to begin with. That's a problem of principle.

> I think the majority of people would classify you as being lazy, and I would say they are right to do so.

And they would, but until you can find a good reason for me to contribute to a society, I would call that relatively low motivation. If I have to beg to get a job, and if it is literally work to find a job, then it is not going to make a lot of sense to me since I am not legally obligated to work. If there is actual unemployment, but there are no simple jobs to do, then maybe laziness is not the problem, maybe it's something else. It's so biblical to call somebody lazy.

> without you really having to going put in the effort to work for it

In the current system you will get removed instantly if you are not competitive enough or take a little too much time to work on something. That's how capitalism works: only the numbers matter. People are not machines. Competition can be a problem if it becomes more important than cooperation. Unemployment is the failure of cooperation.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#162

Post by muse900 »

mfoy_ wrote: post #98
reverend_gonzo wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus, there is so much entitlement in this post I don't even know where to start. No, you don't NEED an Apple iPhone, and a TV with Netflix, and Amazon, and a Gant sweater. There are thousands of families that are surviving just fine without any of that. We have survived for centuries without external entertainment, and suddenly, you NEED this so you don't get bored? Why not have a conversation with your wife. Sit d…

I agree that GP is deluded and entitled. Not to absolve him of his own responsibility for his decisions, but there are very strong forces out there proactively pushing this mindset on people. Companies spend insane amounts of money trying to convince more people that they "need" their products. It's not even just ads and commercials that are guilty of this. Most mainstream media assumes the "American Dream" happens t…

I was going for the example actually as you are saying:

"here are very strong forces out there proactively pushing this mindset on people."

As a human being I personally own land in my homecountry and the best way to spend my holidays on is going to my farm and enjoying nature to the maximum without carying about money or anything. I am very conservative with my wage and what I do with it, as my wife is.

I was just trying to bring up a point about how the way of life has changed, am not self entitled to anything, I've worked from construction in New York to gardner to software developer.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#163

Post by andrepd »

eveningcoffee wrote: post #89
andrepd wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The simple idea of idleness and staying at home to paint or draw seems to drive people crazy. It kinda does, because for you to be able to idle and sit in your home painting, somebody else has to go on the "giant treadmill" to feed you, house you, and clothe you. Do you think I wouldn't like to idle at home as I please, and paint and write and read and laze about? Only if everybody did that we would all starve to de…

I think that you misinterpreted the meaning by a large margin. The question is about handling the productivity gains. One option would be to use the gains to have more (intelligent, as was proposed) leisure time. You do not have to work 8 hours a day if the job you did could be done in 30 minutes of work. You can still keep working for 8 hours (or as it common, more) to squeeze even more out you than was possible bef…

>You do not have to work 8 hours a day if the job you did could be done in 30 minutes of work. You can still keep working for 8 hours (or as it common, more) to squeeze even more out you than was possible before.

I agree, 100%. Even if we aren't at that stage now, we will be very soon, with the automation revolution and continued optimisation of the industrial process. Many people will soon have the realistic possibility to do their same jobs, for the same value creation, in 2 or 3 hours 4 days a week. Yet free market dictates that they work 8 hours per day 5 days a week for even more productivity growth, because if you don't you will fall behind, in a capitalistic free market.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#164

Post by jokoon »

barrkel wrote: post #54
jokoon wrote: post #27

I'm not even american, I'm french, 31, I have skills in programming (C++, php, python, and some math), did not obtain my degree, and I have never worked more than a month during all my life. I currently have the disability status, and I will soon train to be an army reservist. I regularly see a psychiatrist for therapy and took anti depressant for 4 years. The inactivity and the feeling of exclusion is soul-killing (…

Poe's law strikes again. Nobody owes you a living. "Contributing to the labour force" isn't a religion; it is a necessary condition of life, without which we starve. There's no free lunch. I think that, to protect your ego against accusations of laziness, you've projected this idea of society as a pointless activity, so you can defend to yourself your choices. It is self-delusional.

> Nobody owes you a living.

Since FDR, social programs has been implemented, so actually, yes, everyone is owed something because we understood that society can easily crash if some people don't have food.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#165

Post by brohee »

kbenson wrote: post #136
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #33

After watching the documentary "13th" on Netflix recently, I wondered about how the US prison population affected this. Something like 1 out of 100 people in the US are in prison, which must be close to 2 out of 100 men. And another chunk of people who's function in society is to monitor those in jail. Plus the difficulties of getting a job as a felon. Seemed like all put together must have a serious impact on produc…

> Something like 1 out of 100 people in the US are in prison, which must be close to 2 out of 100 men. Wait, doesn't that mean that mean that twice as many men are in prison as people are in prison?

No, it means that men are incarcerated at a higher rate than women.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#166

Post by kirRoyale »

qntty wrote: post #93
hedgew wrote: post #49

In programming and academia you only see the most gifted of society, and even many of those seem to struggle. I can barely imagine what it would be like to be in the less gifted half of the population. I wonder if such men have any chance to build a life respected, or even just work enough to found a family. They seem to have fewer options each year, to find satisfying roles in life. They seem to receive even less un…

This is why Trump is popular. He's the opiate of people who are left behind. People mock them for supporting Trump, but few people offer appealing alternatives.

Trump is popular because Clinton is un-electable. As someone who works in IT, I know the kinds of hoops people jump through to make sure everything is secure. And for her just to shit on those rules so willingly is un-redeemable IMO.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#167

Post by mmargerum »

cableshaft wrote: post #137
vrtx0 wrote: post #114

I'm one of these missing men. I'm currently 35, and have been working as a software engineer since I was 19. Two years ago, I started experiencing excruciating, unrelenting low back pain that eventually required me to leave my job and go on long term disability. I loved my job. I worked at MongoDB in Palo Alto for 3 years, contributing to the core database (C++) and designed a performance testing platform (among othe…

I went through something similar the past couple of years, and was letting my back determine job prospects (i.e. I didn't want to take a train downtown and walk five blocks to work, hell I didn't want to walk to the parking garage next to my building). For me (and possibly only me, I don't know your situation), what worked better than anything was to start eating a keto (low carb, and incidentally no wheat) diet, whi…

Have you tried cbd oil or vaping?

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#168

Post by cableshaft »

vrtx0 wrote: post #148
cableshaft wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went through something similar the past couple of years, and was letting my back determine job prospects (i.e. I didn't want to take a train downtown and walk five blocks to work, hell I didn't want to walk to the parking garage next to my building). For me (and possibly only me, I don't know your situation), what worked better than anything was to start eating a keto (low carb, and incidentally no wheat) diet, whi…

Thanks for the suggestion. I've tried various diets, including Keto, LCHF, etc. I try to stick with LCHF just to slow down my weight gain, but it doesn't impact my pain or neurological symptoms. For anybody else reading this I'm a similar situation, please do follow cableshaft's advice and try new diets. I also recommend physical therapy. The cause(s) of MS and many similar diseases are not well understood. At all. F…

That's unfortunate that it didn't work for you. I'm glad to know you had given it a shot, though, so you at least know there's probably not a more natural fix for the problem. I really hope they find something and can give you something to ease your pain. Good luck.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#169

Post by kazagistar »

fizzbatter wrote: post #64
jokoon wrote: post #27

I'm not even american, I'm french, 31, I have skills in programming (C++, php, python, and some math), did not obtain my degree, and I have never worked more than a month during all my life. I currently have the disability status, and I will soon train to be an army reservist. I regularly see a psychiatrist for therapy and took anti depressant for 4 years. The inactivity and the feeling of exclusion is soul-killing (…

> I know I'm ranting but to me, society looks like a giant treading mill. Happiness and the slow, intelligent life have been forgotten in favor of a society of endless work and jobs. Contributing to the labor force has become a religion. The simple idea of idleness and staying at home to paint or draw seems to drive people crazy. It should not. I mean, to a degree i can understand what you mean. We are seeking happin…

Work seems to be becoming zero sum competition, which is inherently nonproductive. Advertising, shitty flashlight apps, sales, much financial work, etc; we could drop many of these with little to no negate impact on productivity in society. These jobs exist because useful work is running out, so people are hiring extra labor to fight over their slice of the pie.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#170

Post by leesalminen »

mmargerum wrote: post #167
cableshaft wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went through something similar the past couple of years, and was letting my back determine job prospects (i.e. I didn't want to take a train downtown and walk five blocks to work, hell I didn't want to walk to the parking garage next to my building). For me (and possibly only me, I don't know your situation), what worked better than anything was to start eating a keto (low carb, and incidentally no wheat) diet, whi…

Have you tried cbd oil or vaping?

CBD oil has a lot of promise. It doesn't get you "high", but acts much like an NSAID.
Post reply on HN