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The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

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Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#311

Post by v64 »

wildmusings wrote: post #285
v64 wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The people are totally right to refuse to be fooled again. So are you saying we should just give up on the issue? We tried something and it didn't work. We should try again. The solution isn't "build a wall". > The funny thing is that the people beating the drums of climate panic tend to be the same ones that are opposed to nuclear power, which is the easiest and most obvious solution that doesn't require crippling…

> So are you saying we should just give up on the issue? We tried something and it didn't work. We should try again. The solution isn't "build a wall". Part of the solution is certainly to build a barrier. Mind you, this was once uncontroversial when it was just a flimsy "border fence", which is already authorized by law with bipartisan support. Now it seems that some are scared that a proper barrier, combined with r…

> I suggest then that you base your vote on this issue not so much on who "believes" in climate change or not, but who supports the actual policies that can actually solve it.

How is the GOP going to put out an actual policy to solve climate change if they don't believe it's even a problem in the first place?

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#312

Post by qmalzp »

dexterdog wrote: post #306
kurthr wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow... that's an easy one, but since you asked. Black US unemployment went from 15% (peaking at 16% a year later) in 2008 back down to 9.1% in 2016 (close to the 2007 pre-recession low). http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t02.htm http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2011/ted_20111005.htm I encourage your fact based discovery of the economic condition of this country and it's citizens. Alternatively, we can all live in tot…

Black unemployment peaked at 16 when the national rate was 10. It dropped to 9.1 when the national rate is 5 so blacks did significantly worse than society as a whole.

Depends on how you look at it.

Going from 84% to 90.9% employment rate represents an 8.21% increase in the proportion of black people who are employed.

Going from 90% to 95% employment rate represents a 5.55% increase in the proportion of Americans who are employed.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#313

Post by v64 »

BurningFrog wrote: post #298
v64 wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who would you rather have running the country? The alternatives aren't even viable.

I would have people running their own lives.

Humanity decided long ago that running our own lives as hunters and gatherers wasn't the best we could do, and we came together to form societies and governments. No matter how you feel about it, you live in a society and have benefited from its public services, and there has to be some group of people to administer those public services.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#314

Post by qmalzp »

nihonde wrote: post #167
josu wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the time since Dylan started signing black people went from having very limited rights to winning a presidential elections. Obviously, there are many more factors than Dylan at play, and establishing causality, or the lack of thereof, is impossible. But, in my opinion, saying that society has not changed would be a big mistake.

Attributing any of that "progress" to Bob Dylan is a huge reach. He has a lot of fans and reached some segment of the population with his act, but he's basically just another guy peddling records and tap dancing for nickels.

I would argue he occupied a lot more mindspace than most Nobel Laureates.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#315

Post by cylinder »

wildmusings wrote: post #217
kristianc wrote: post #157

I can't help but come back to: A South politician preaches to the poor white man "You got more than blacks, don't complain You're better than them, you been born with white skin" they explain And the Negro's name Is used it is plain For the politician's gain As he rises to fame And the poor white remains On the caboose of the train But it ain't him to blame He's only a pawn in their game. YouTube: https://m.youtube.c…

> When I see Trump rallies today full of angry people complaining their country has been 'taken from them' I can't help but think of that song. Give me a break. "Taking our country back" is talking about wrestling power back from the political and cultural elite that has emerged in the last half-century. This elite formed when 1) all of the smart kids started going off to college together and forming their own social…

Agree. Good article on The Guardian about this[0]

If this was about racism, then why Trump now? Why were Republican nominees so conventional the last 50+ years?

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/oct/13/liberal-media-...

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#316

Post by [deleted] »

wildmusings wrote: post #302
johncip wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Democrats were happy to keep importing voters I think it's important not to discount the difficulty of securing the border because of the size of it. And as you mention, American companies (like Smithfield) are happy to create incentives for border hopping because they can use the threat of calling INS to keep wages low and prevent unions from forming. The problem with the idea of widespread voting fraud is the…

I'm not talking about fraudulent voting by illegal immigrants, I'm talking about the fact that they eventually become citizens when amnesty rolls around, and their kids become citizens automatically by birthright.

[deleted]

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#317

Post by MichaelMoser123 »

scum_master wrote: post #300
wildmusings wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Race does. There's no doubt that being born into a inner-city black community is a devastating hand to be dealt. Such children are likely to be raised by single mothers, surrounded by violent crime, in schools with rampant gang activity, and in a culture that devalues success as an act of racial betrayal. But rac ism is not a significant factor these days. In fact, minorities who do escape the fatalism of these commu…

I disagree. The reason that being born into an inner city black community is a devastating hand is precisely because of racism. Race does not exist in a vacuum. Look at the legislation that makes possession a crime. Look at the way selective enforcement results in blacks being over represented in prison systems. Look at the way the urban school districts are underfunded. You can pretend that the system is not racist,…

Did Obama help to initiate any tangible change with respect to norms and institutions? What kind of changes happened in the inner cities during the past eight years? [I am an outside observer who really doesn't know]

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#318

Post by kurthr »

dexterdog wrote: post #306
kurthr wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow... that's an easy one, but since you asked. Black US unemployment went from 15% (peaking at 16% a year later) in 2008 back down to 9.1% in 2016 (close to the 2007 pre-recession low). http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t02.htm http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2011/ted_20111005.htm I encourage your fact based discovery of the economic condition of this country and it's citizens. Alternatively, we can all live in tot…

Black unemployment peaked at 16 when the national rate was 10. It dropped to 9.1 when the national rate is 5 so blacks did significantly worse than society as a whole.

I am confused. How can a decrease in unemployment from 16% to 9 not be an objective improvement for american blacks in years?

Do they look back from todays "hellscape" recovery and remember the wonder days when we wondered how many people would lose their jobs or homes to foreclosure? Or did they rejoice when black RNC head Michael Steele was forced to kowtow Rush Limbaugh after Obama was elected?

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#319

Post by kefka_p »

barney54 wrote: post #307
v64 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you, Romney has been relatively much more sane than other Republicans. I would have even voted for him if he was able to run as Massachusetts Governor Romney and not Pandering to the Insane Right Wing Romney. But he's certainly an outlier among the present class of Republicans. I think the Republican Party's pro-life position to be discriminatory against women. No one can force you to be an organ donor.…

How is the pro-life position discriminatory against women? The question is one of line drawing of when life begins that needs to be protected. The pro-life position believes that life should be protected earlier than the pro-choice position. That is not discriminatory against women. We are obviously setting side abortion in cases of rape. So the pro-life position is equal in it's belief about women's autonomy over th…

> How is the pro-life position discriminatory against women?

In that you don't already comprehend, I doubt I'll be able to aid in your understanding, but here goes nothing.

The state allows men to exercise control over their own reproductive systems more completely than women.

It really is that simple.

Men have all options available e.g. vasectomy, wearing condoms, etc. Women on the other hand see the "party of small government" lead the charge into their hospital rooms, dictating to them what rights they have insofar as control of their own reproductive systems goes.

If men also could get pregnant, it wouldn't be discriminatory. That the only reproductive control technique to be denied women is a technique only available to women, any laws to restrict such techniques are inherently discriminatory toward women.

The attempts to restrict abortion effect women's rights directly, far more so than men, many of whom vanish before a child is even carried to term.

Does that help clear it up?

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#320

Post by MichaelMoser123 »

kristianc wrote: post #157

I can't help but come back to: A South politician preaches to the poor white man "You got more than blacks, don't complain You're better than them, you been born with white skin" they explain And the Negro's name Is used it is plain For the politician's gain As he rises to fame And the poor white remains On the caboose of the train But it ain't him to blame He's only a pawn in their game. YouTube: https://m.youtube.c…

Randy Newman says that racism and bigotry are not just limited to southern politicians and that it is a universal problem, at least that's what he says with 'rednecks'; i think that Randy would really deserve the price, but you can't get one for humour/satire, as satire is considered to be a minor muse.

My guess is that Dylan got the price because his generation is aging and they want a statement of that it all really mattered in the larger sense.

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