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The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

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Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#271

Post by cb18 »

v64 wrote: post #266
cb18 wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one can force you to be an organ donor. Even if donating your organs would save someone's life, you have autonomy over your body and you are allowed to decline to be an organ donor. How is abortion any different? An organ is a component of a body. A baby is an entire human life form. You can't take an organ out of a body and have it grow up to be a poet or an astronaut. If a baby in the womb is simply "a woman's b…

I think you missed the point of my analogy on abortion. Let's say there's someone you know who's going to die in 24 hours if she doesn't get a kidney transplant. She's too far down on the list to get one in that timeframe. Out of all the people she knows that have been tested, you're the only one who's a match. If you donate your kidney, she lives. If you don't donate your kidney, she dies. Either way, the government…

So you're basically saying that all babies in the womb should be regarded as having an illness. The illness being whether or not the mother chooses to terminate the pregnancy in an unnatural way.

Just think about that, the stark unnaturalness of abortion. What other animal acts in such a way? There is nary a stronger force in nature than a mother's protection of her young.

What is it about our society that compels women to do this?

Does it have something to with the mixed messages being sent to women telling them they should act like men?

Then by that logic, they should be arguing for organ donation to be mandatory.

The crux of the illogic in this is that, left to take the natural course a baby is more often than not, not going to die.

Whereas a terminal kidney disease patient, resulting from particular circumstances will die without intervention.

Tell that to a woman who gets pregnant from being raped.

I thought of that as I wrote that,(almost added a parenthetical). I think we can both agree that that is an edge case. An over-attention on edge cases can cloud our thinking about the larger issues.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#272

Post by wildmusings »

v64 wrote: post #256
wildmusings wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mitt Romney was a very good candidate, except for his ultimate lack of fight. If you really believe that women and minorities don't have equal rights, then I can only urge you to dig a little deeper. Gender wage discrimination is a made-up problem, the statistics that you hear don't control for career choice, hours-worked, positions-sought, etc. The problem with our police force is that it's not professionalized once…

I agree with you, Romney has been relatively much more sane than other Republicans. I would have even voted for him if he was able to run as Massachusetts Governor Romney and not Pandering to the Insane Right Wing Romney. But he's certainly an outlier among the present class of Republicans. I think the Republican Party's pro-life position to be discriminatory against women. No one can force you to be an organ donor.…

>Immigration is a huge issue, and I really thought the GOP was turning the corner on it, but it's all fallen apart since the GOP decided it would rather pander to an angry white base.

Amnesty for current illegal immigrants + improved border security and visa enforcement, so that it never happens again, is the obvious answer to the immigration problem. What many people don't know is that the American people were sold on just that in 1986. It was a great compromise, a great humanitarian action, worthy of a great nation.

Too bad it was a total lie. Amnesty was granted, but the improved enforcement never came. The Democrats were happy to keep importing voters and keep a hot-button issue alive. The Republicans were happy to keep importing cheap labor. The people, who wanted an end to uncontrolled immigration, were the suckers. Sanctuary cities that refuse to hand over dangerous criminals for deportation, and a federal government that usually declines deportation anyway, have only added fuel to the fire.

The people are totally right to refuse to be fooled again.

>But I believe that climate change is real.

The funny thing is that the people beating the drums of climate panic tend to be the same ones that are opposed to nuclear power, which is the easiest and most obvious solution that doesn't require crippling our economy.

>I believe that religion has no place in government or political discourse.

I disagree completely. The government should certainly not favor one religion over another, but the religions are the source of our moral values, even for most of the non-believers among us. We take for granted just how much Christianity has shaped our secular culture and morality. If you believe in your heart that abortion is the taking of a human life, then you have a duty to fight to end it.

>I believe that marijuana has medicinal benefits and that the War on Drugs has been a colossal waste.

I agree for the most part, but I've lately had doubts about my previous position that we should just legalize all drugs. Drugs like heroin and meth and cocaine rob people of their agency, of the will to direct their own lives. They should not be available for purchase.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#273

Post by ArkyBeagle »

Overtonwindow wrote: post #114
ArkyBeagle wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which voice? He's used several. His voice really changed a lot after the motorcycle wreck that about killed him.

OH wow I didn't know that. This was in ... 2010. His voice had the sound of a death rattle, absolutely unrecognizable.

He's always ... distorted his singing voice. The motorcycle wreck was 50 years ago and he about broke his neck. He cracked a vertabrae. At least in recordings his voice was different after that, but it's impossible to say how much was mechanical damage and how much was his Bobness reinventing himself again.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#274

Post by jacquesm »

cb18 wrote: post #271
v64 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you missed the point of my analogy on abortion. Let's say there's someone you know who's going to die in 24 hours if she doesn't get a kidney transplant. She's too far down on the list to get one in that timeframe. Out of all the people she knows that have been tested, you're the only one who's a match. If you donate your kidney, she lives. If you don't donate your kidney, she dies. Either way, the government…

So you're basically saying that all babies in the womb should be regarded as having an illness. The illness being whether or not the mother chooses to terminate the pregnancy in an unnatural way. Just think about that, the stark unnaturalness of abortion. What other animal acts in such a way? There is nary a stronger force in nature than a mother's protection of her young. What is it about our society that compels wo…

If you spend long enough looking at a problem you'll realize that there are a lot more 'edge cases' than there are 'normal' ones. Nobody undergoes an abortion for fun.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#276

Post by wildmusings »

germinalphrase wrote: post #254
wildmusings wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mitt Romney was a very good candidate, except for his ultimate lack of fight. If you really believe that women and minorities don't have equal rights, then I can only urge you to dig a little deeper. Gender wage discrimination is a made-up problem, the statistics that you hear don't control for career choice, hours-worked, positions-sought, etc. The problem with our police force is that it's not professionalized once…

Are you saying that race/racism does not have a meaningful effect on a person's opportunities in life?

Race does. There's no doubt that being born into a inner-city black community is a devastating hand to be dealt. Such children are likely to be raised by single mothers, surrounded by violent crime, in schools with rampant gang activity, and in a culture that devalues success as an act of racial betrayal.

But racism is not a significant factor these days. In fact, minorities who do escape the fatalism of these communities are advantaged by widespread affirmative action, not just in school admissions, but in hiring, business loans, professional recognition, etc.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#278

Post by cb18 »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #252
wildmusings wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I see Trump rallies today full of angry people complaining their country has been 'taken from them' I can't help but think of that song. Give me a break. "Taking our country back" is talking about wrestling power back from the political and cultural elite that has emerged in the last half-century. This elite formed when 1) all of the smart kids started going off to college together and forming their own social…

> Give me a break. "Taking our country back" is talking about wrestling power back from the political and cultural elite that has emerged in the last half-century. You mean people like Trump?

No not really. Going back millennia, there has always been an elite within a society. The difference that is recent to emerge is that there is a growing disconnect between the interests of the elite and the societies to which they supposedly belong.

Nationalist vs Globalist is a pretty good summarization.

The globalists seem primarily interested in using their positions of power to enrich themselves and gratify their egos, and they perhaps feel they are doing something right in their policy prescriptions, but it is driven by complete lack of understanding of human nature.

The nationalists understand that humans have concentric (genetic) loyalties, from self, to family, to nation/race. These are just facts of nature, fighting against them is a losing battle and arranging our societies along these natural lines will produce the best outcomes.

The nationalists want the best for the whole world, not just a tiny trans-national elite.

Trump is a nationalist.

(Yes I know this seems antithetical to the experience of many in SV, elite universities, etc. What these supposedly smart people fail to understand is that they are among outliers of outliers. Exceptions to rules are not unknown, but basing our policy on exceptions is an invitation to disaster.)

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#279

Post by v64 »

wildmusings wrote: post #272
v64 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you, Romney has been relatively much more sane than other Republicans. I would have even voted for him if he was able to run as Massachusetts Governor Romney and not Pandering to the Insane Right Wing Romney. But he's certainly an outlier among the present class of Republicans. I think the Republican Party's pro-life position to be discriminatory against women. No one can force you to be an organ donor.…

> Immigration is a huge issue, and I really thought the GOP was turning the corner on it, but it's all fallen apart since the GOP decided it would rather pander to an angry white base. Amnesty for current illegal immigrants + improved border security and visa enforcement, so that it never happens again, is the obvious answer to the immigration problem. What many people don't know is that the American people were sold…

> The people are totally right to refuse to be fooled again.

So are you saying we should just give up on the issue? We tried something and it didn't work. We should try again. The solution isn't "build a wall".

> The funny thing is that the people beating the drums of climate panic tend to be the same ones that are opposed to nuclear power, which is the easiest and most obvious solution that doesn't require crippling our economy.

I agree, I think it's idiotic to vilify nuclear power. Catastrophes have happened, we learned from them.

> The government should certainly not favor one religion over another, but the religions are the source of our moral values, even for most of the non-believers among us.

We agree to disagree then. I believe religion is a highly personal issue that has no place in public discourse. I do not see Christianity's influence on our culture and morality as a positive thing.

> Drugs like heroin and meth and cocaine rob people of their agency, of the will to direct their own lives. They should not be available for purchase.

I agree. When I rail against the War on Drugs, I specifically refer to the stance of incarceration rather than rehabilitation as a solution to the drug problem.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#280

Post by sbmassey »

v64 wrote: post #226
BurningFrog wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is if they run your country and you're outside the bubble.

Who would you rather have running the country? The alternatives aren't even viable.

If that is the case, we should consider splitting the country up into more homogenous chunks
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