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The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

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Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#251

Post by cdelsolar »

dexterdog wrote: post #215
kristianc wrote: post #157

I can't help but come back to: A South politician preaches to the poor white man "You got more than blacks, don't complain You're better than them, you been born with white skin" they explain And the Negro's name Is used it is plain For the politician's gain As he rises to fame And the poor white remains On the caboose of the train But it ain't him to blame He's only a pawn in their game. YouTube: https://m.youtube.c…

It's funny because when I think of "politicians who sow hatred, insecurity, fear and division for their own ends and don't care what mess they leave behind" I would first think of the Democrats.

that is objectively false.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#252

Post by dclowd9901 »

wildmusings wrote: post #217
kristianc wrote: post #157

I can't help but come back to: A South politician preaches to the poor white man "You got more than blacks, don't complain You're better than them, you been born with white skin" they explain And the Negro's name Is used it is plain For the politician's gain As he rises to fame And the poor white remains On the caboose of the train But it ain't him to blame He's only a pawn in their game. YouTube: https://m.youtube.c…

> When I see Trump rallies today full of angry people complaining their country has been 'taken from them' I can't help but think of that song. Give me a break. "Taking our country back" is talking about wrestling power back from the political and cultural elite that has emerged in the last half-century. This elite formed when 1) all of the smart kids started going off to college together and forming their own social…

> Give me a break. "Taking our country back" is talking about wrestling power back from the political and cultural elite that has emerged in the last half-century.

You mean people like Trump?

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#253

Post by Aloha »

wildmusings wrote: post #217
kristianc wrote: post #157

I can't help but come back to: A South politician preaches to the poor white man "You got more than blacks, don't complain You're better than them, you been born with white skin" they explain And the Negro's name Is used it is plain For the politician's gain As he rises to fame And the poor white remains On the caboose of the train But it ain't him to blame He's only a pawn in their game. YouTube: https://m.youtube.c…

> When I see Trump rallies today full of angry people complaining their country has been 'taken from them' I can't help but think of that song. Give me a break. "Taking our country back" is talking about wrestling power back from the political and cultural elite that has emerged in the last half-century. This elite formed when 1) all of the smart kids started going off to college together and forming their own social…

I too can wholeheartedly recommend Coming Apart. I think Mr. Murrays synopsis of why we've had a splintering post WWII is great and probably pretty accurate. I just wish I knew an easy solution to fix it. But there is definitely a loss of shared values among Americans. I'd also recommend Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam as a starter on this topic.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#254

Post by germinalphrase »

wildmusings wrote: post #247
v64 wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Republican Party has failed to field a credible candidate for quite some time. If you believe in science and equal rights for women and minorities, those damn "elites" are all we have.

Mitt Romney was a very good candidate, except for his ultimate lack of fight. If you really believe that women and minorities don't have equal rights, then I can only urge you to dig a little deeper. Gender wage discrimination is a made-up problem, the statistics that you hear don't control for career choice, hours-worked, positions-sought, etc. The problem with our police force is that it's not professionalized once…

Are you saying that race/racism does not have a meaningful effect on a person's opportunities in life?

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#255

Post by dgant »

hackuser wrote: post #150
mcphilip wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That MusiCares speech is a great read if you have 30 minutes to spare. A few favorite bits: On Dylan's immersion in classic folk: >If you sang "John Henry" as many times as me – "John Henry was a steel-driving man / Died with a hammer in his hand / John Henry said a man ain't nothin' but a man / Before I let that steam drill drive me down / I'll die with that hammer in my hand." If you had sung that song as many time…

The MusicCares speech is great; thanks. An interesting excerpt: I learned lyrics and how to write them from listening to folk songs. And I played them, and I met other people that played them, back when nobody was doing it. Sang nothing but these folk songs, and they gave me the code for everything that's fair game, that everything belongs to everyone. Does Dylan allow bootlegging? Are his songs libre? Does he limit…

His representatives are generally very lenient on unreleased material and very strict on material that's commercially available.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#256

Post by v64 »

wildmusings wrote: post #247
v64 wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Republican Party has failed to field a credible candidate for quite some time. If you believe in science and equal rights for women and minorities, those damn "elites" are all we have.

Mitt Romney was a very good candidate, except for his ultimate lack of fight. If you really believe that women and minorities don't have equal rights, then I can only urge you to dig a little deeper. Gender wage discrimination is a made-up problem, the statistics that you hear don't control for career choice, hours-worked, positions-sought, etc. The problem with our police force is that it's not professionalized once…

I agree with you, Romney has been relatively much more sane than other Republicans. I would have even voted for him if he was able to run as Massachusetts Governor Romney and not Pandering to the Insane Right Wing Romney. But he's certainly an outlier among the present class of Republicans.

I think the Republican Party's pro-life position to be discriminatory against women. No one can force you to be an organ donor. Even if donating your organs would save someone's life, you have autonomy over your body and you are allowed to decline to be an organ donor. How is abortion any different? Even if you could save the baby's life, a woman should have complete autonomy over her body, period.

Immigration is a huge issue, and I really thought the GOP was turning the corner on it, but it's all fallen apart since the GOP decided it would rather pander to an angry white base. Hopefully Trump will lose big and the GOP will actually follow the research they did in 2012.

You sound like a reasonable person. I agree that wage discrimination and police violence aren't black and white issues. I agree that SJWism stifles honest debate. But I believe that climate change is real. I believe that marijuana has medicinal benefits and that the War on Drugs has been a colossal waste. I believe that religion has no place in government or political discourse. I believe that it doesn't matter what your sexual orientation or gender identity is. These aren't partisan issues in my mind; it's reality. Romney seems to understand this. But I'm from East Texas, and I know for every one of him, there's a dozen Louie Gohmerts. The GOP needs to get its shit together and jettison the insane branch of its tent before we end up with a de facto one party political system.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#257

Post by nchelluri »

sliverstorm wrote: post #176
Chathamization wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. I like Dylan's music alright, but reading the lyrics posted here and imagining how they would sound on their own (If you've heard the songs, you tend to impose the music on them when you read them), I don't think they're particularly impressive. If you slipped, say, "The Ballad of a Thin Man" into a poetry anthology I don't believe many people coming across it blind would consider it one of the greats.

Is it right to consider the lyrics without the music? Isn't that a little like reading a literal translation of a poem in another language?

I love that comparison. Just came here to say that.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#258

Post by dexterdog »

cdelsolar wrote: post #251
dexterdog wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny because when I think of "politicians who sow hatred, insecurity, fear and division for their own ends and don't care what mess they leave behind" I would first think of the Democrats.

that is objectively false.

Is it? Tell me what has objectively improved for blacks in the last 8 years.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#259

Post by wyager »

rdiddly wrote: post #246
wildmusings wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I see Trump rallies today full of angry people complaining their country has been 'taken from them' I can't help but think of that song. Give me a break. "Taking our country back" is talking about wrestling power back from the political and cultural elite that has emerged in the last half-century. This elite formed when 1) all of the smart kids started going off to college together and forming their own social…

To say it has nothing to do with race, you'd need to prove race has no effect on whether you go to college and become a member of the elite. Or am I misunderstanding the "it"? Do you mean "taking the country back" has nothing to do with race? For you, it sounds like that's true, so that's good. That's all I can conclude however. I can conclude nothing about Trump. Literally nobody has any idea what Trump's really abo…

It's possible that incidental racial correlations exist. He obviously meant "race is not a driving factor". By your logic, it would also be anti-male, because fewer men go to college than women.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#260

Post by rdiddly »

wyager wrote: post #259
rdiddly wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To say it has nothing to do with race, you'd need to prove race has no effect on whether you go to college and become a member of the elite. Or am I misunderstanding the "it"? Do you mean "taking the country back" has nothing to do with race? For you, it sounds like that's true, so that's good. That's all I can conclude however. I can conclude nothing about Trump. Literally nobody has any idea what Trump's really abo…

It's possible that incidental racial correlations exist. He obviously meant "race is not a driving factor". By your logic, it would also be anti-male, because fewer men go to college than women.

"Nothing to do with" means no correlation.

Edit: And note that "by my logic" you cannot conclude any thing is anti- any other thing. That was your logic.

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