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The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

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Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#241
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you blame them? A large portion of the masses have aligned themselves with a con man.

The Republican Party failed to field a credible candidate that spoke to Middle America. They, too, were blinded by the elite bubble. Trump saw the weakness and jumped on it.

The Republican Party has failed to field a credible candidate for quite some time. If you believe in science and equal rights for women and minorities, those damn "elites" are all we have.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#242
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is. When a society is splintered and the elites try to rule as if they understand the masses, you will have greater strife.

Can you blame them? A large portion of the masses have aligned themselves with a con man.

The plural form is "con men"

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite - as a strategy by Republican politicians (and Democrats before that) it predates Trump by quite a long way.

I hear a whooshing sound. Reductio ad Trumperum or something similar (I'm not real 'up' on my Latin grammar) would presumably mean "reduce to Trump." You know, like summing up a complex & nuanced issue in terms of how it supposedly relates to Trump. You're saying people have been doing this -- as a -strategy- mind you -- since before Trump existed?

That's not what it means. Reductio ad 'X' means assigning guilt by association to X. I don't feel like I really need to make the actions of the Republican Party in the 1960s in the south (yes - southern strategy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy) any more wrong by associating them with Trump. Lynchings kind of speak for themselves.

Do I think that Trump is drawing on the same political tradition by 'othering' Mexicans, LGBTs, Blacks to win political support? Do I think that most of Trump's political constituency comes from the 'base' that the likes of Karl Rove built? Do I think that 'liberal political elites' is a dogwhistle for 'progressive social change I don't like' - you bet.

Edit: By reductio ad 'X' I mean in reference to Reductio ad Hitlerum (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum), which as commenter below points out is actually a bastardization of Reductio ad Absurdum

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#245

I can't help but come back to: A South politician preaches to the poor white man "You got more than blacks, don't complain You're better than them, you been born with white skin" they explain And the Negro's name Is used it is plain For the politician's gain As he rises to fame And the poor white remains On the caboose of the train But it ain't him to blame He's only a pawn in their game. YouTube: https://m.youtube.c…

And another example of how wrong you are about rising tensions in the US, how many times in recent years have we seen some huge clusterf*ck about a supposed murder in cold blood that turns out to be perfectly justifiable? (Where is any coverage of frequent and horrendous, totally unjustifiable black on white crimes?)

It's gotten to the point where we see all pretence dispensed with and we now see regular race riots in the US when someone is justifiably killed by the police.

All thanks to a get out the vote effort of Democrats and their media compatriots in the form of falsely portraying blacks as victims and stoking racial tensions, encouraging the tensions along with violence in many cases.

And a deafening silence in public discussion about the huge disconnect in rates of black on white crime vs white on black.

One must wonder, what is the endgame for these people? Facts can't stay hidden forever.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#246

I can't help but come back to: A South politician preaches to the poor white man "You got more than blacks, don't complain You're better than them, you been born with white skin" they explain And the Negro's name Is used it is plain For the politician's gain As he rises to fame And the poor white remains On the caboose of the train But it ain't him to blame He's only a pawn in their game. YouTube: https://m.youtube.c…

> When I see Trump rallies today full of angry people complaining their country has been 'taken from them' I can't help but think of that song. Give me a break. "Taking our country back" is talking about wrestling power back from the political and cultural elite that has emerged in the last half-century. This elite formed when 1) all of the smart kids started going off to college together and forming their own social…

To say it has nothing to do with race, you'd need to prove race has no effect on whether you go to college and become a member of the elite.

Or am I misunderstanding the "it"? Do you mean "taking the country back" has nothing to do with race? For you, it sounds like that's true, so that's good. That's all I can conclude however. I can conclude nothing about Trump. Literally nobody has any idea what Trump's really about. He's juuuust incoherent enough that he never manages to actually, successfully say anything. In that way he succeeds at being all things to all people. Anyone can project anything onto him without fear of being contradicted. Including his opponents. You say he's about SOCIAL EQUALITY. His opponents say he's about RACISM. Who's right? Nobody knows.

Edit: Same is true of Clinton, for different reasons. The words are more coherent, but they're so vague and full of platitudes you can't really say what she's about either.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#247
post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Republican Party failed to field a credible candidate that spoke to Middle America. They, too, were blinded by the elite bubble. Trump saw the weakness and jumped on it.

The Republican Party has failed to field a credible candidate for quite some time. If you believe in science and equal rights for women and minorities, those damn "elites" are all we have.

Mitt Romney was a very good candidate, except for his ultimate lack of fight.

If you really believe that women and minorities don't have equal rights, then I can only urge you to dig a little deeper. Gender wage discrimination is a made-up problem, the statistics that you hear don't control for career choice, hours-worked, positions-sought, etc. The problem with our police force is that it's not professionalized once you get below the federal level. Police are too aggressive and quick to use force, but it's not a racial issue.

SJWism is a cancer on Western civilization and it's one of the most pressing problems we face, because it prevents us from having honest conversations about any other problem. Debates these days always devolve into accusations of racism/sexism/"ableism", or whatever the latest boogeyman "ism" is.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear a whooshing sound. Reductio ad Trumperum or something similar (I'm not real 'up' on my Latin grammar) would presumably mean "reduce to Trump." You know, like summing up a complex & nuanced issue in terms of how it supposedly relates to Trump. You're saying people have been doing this -- as a -strategy- mind you -- since before Trump existed?

That's not what it means. Reductio ad 'X' means assigning guilt by association to X. I don't feel like I really need to make the actions of the Republican Party in the 1960s in the south (yes - southern strategy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy ) any more wrong by associating them with Trump. Lynchings kind of speak for themselves. Do I think that Trump is drawing on the same political tradition by '…

> Reductio ad 'X' means assigning guilt by association to X.

Not really. Reductio ad absurdum is a common proof strategy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#249
post #245

I can't help but come back to: A South politician preaches to the poor white man "You got more than blacks, don't complain You're better than them, you been born with white skin" they explain And the Negro's name Is used it is plain For the politician's gain As he rises to fame And the poor white remains On the caboose of the train But it ain't him to blame He's only a pawn in their game. YouTube: https://m.youtube.c…

And another example of how wrong you are about rising tensions in the US, how many times in recent years have we seen some huge clusterf*ck about a supposed murder in cold blood that turns out to be perfectly justifiable? (Where is any coverage of frequent and horrendous, totally unjustifiable black on white crimes?) It's gotten to the point where we see all pretence dispensed with and we now see regular race riots i…

I like that pithy statement, Facts can't stay hidden forever. I have big dreams about big data proving various forms of rhetoric false and enumerating all the counter examples. For the time being I think we'll have to manually aggregate the examples like Heather MacDonald often does.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#250
This might be interesting; the original, Swedish/English/French/German-language announcement, including audience reaction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0ybJQs8_rs

(Yeah, the "permanent secretary of the Swedish academy" is showing off her multilingual skills quite a bit...)

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