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The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

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Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#261

Post by DanBC »

gambiting wrote: post #255

Is it just me, or is the cyclist in this gif(from the article): http://99percentinvisible.org/app/uploads/2016/09/doorzone.g... Cycling way too fast on a narrow lane like this? I'm not saying that he's at fault, obviously the fault is 100% on the side of whoever opened the door, but if I was driving 60mph next to a lane of standing traffic, that would be completely irresponsible, because if someone pulled out into my…

So clearly cyclists can't win. If they travel at the same speed as other traffic you'll complain they're travelling too fast.

If they slow down other people will complain about having to share the road with slow vehicles.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#262

Post by justinlardinois »

School-Cotton wrote: post #126
saulrh wrote: post #5

Getting it added to the driver's license test is probably the key here.

In the US being able to drive is culturally considered a human right. I think that's part of why standards for driving exams or so risibly low compared to Europe.

This is in part because much of the US is almost impossible to get around without a car.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#263

Post by alkonaut »

thwd wrote: post #222
stephenr wrote: post #215

I'm not quite sure I understand. Do Americans not look at what's coming from behind them before opening a slab of metal and glass a meter out the side of their cars? Kind of reminds me of when I first moved to Thailand. My (now) mother-in-law asked her daughter why I kept looking over my shoulder when driving her car, and why/if I couldn't use the side mirrors. She had literally never heard of nor understood the conc…

Don't know about the American thing but what I do know is that while in Europe they teach us to turn our heads and bodies when driving, the modern world caught up with blindspotless mirrors and teach you to use them. It's much safer as people tended to turn their hands together with their bodies, effectively steering a car to the left when looking out the left window.

> blindspotless mirrors

There are cars with 3 mirrors that don't have blind spots, without having some other tradeoff instead?

That makes the blind spot radar/lidar/camera systems on new high-tech cars seem pretty dumb!

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#264

Post by awjr »

fuckbicyclists wrote: post #173

Bicyclists should not be able to share the road with drivers in the cities unless they vote to become a primarily bicycle-based cities. Bikes were not meant to share the road with cars. I often see bicyclists ambling along in front of me at 20 m.p.h. and even if they're to the side of the road I still have to slow down to avoid any risk of hitting them, with cars coming up behind me. I'm usually forced to change lane…

I've posted this elsewhere on this thread, but it needs repeating. The Netherlands is considered the best place in the world to drive. With 85% of journeys under 10km, most people choose to cycle rather than drive. http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/best-place-in-the-world-to-be...

Your point is valid and one that is driven by the concept of sustainable safety and a Pedestrian First approach to urban design ( www.knightfoundation.org/features/livable-cities ). Walking, Cycling, and Driving should be mostly segregated from each other given the different speed profiles each has.

This does mean that the priority in road design must be to provide space for each mode of transport, then consider the ability to park your private vehicle on the street. It is a political decision to prioritise parking on public streets over good space for each form of transport.

This lack of "modal equality" in highways engineering is a really big issue.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#265

Post by mjhagen »

arve0 wrote: post #259
speleding wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wearing a helmet in your car would prevent a lot of injuries as well, and nobody does that. This is just a risk/reward trade off and I (as a Dutch cyclist) feel a few additional deaths on the total population is not worth the effort. And the things are uncomfortable and impractical: what are you going to do with it when you arrive on your destination? Lug it around all day? Bring a bag everywhere?

Or hang it on the bicycle?

That would certainly not get stolen.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#266

Post by rkangel »

Angostura wrote: post #258
tluyben2 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also find it interesting the Dutch rarely ever wear helmets. Good or bad; I am Dutch and I would confidently say that all people I know would never ride a bike again if they have to wear those silly helmets. More likely if it would be mandatory, they just would refuse and not do it, but if largely enforced they would just not use bikes anymore.

I'm strongly against mandatory helmets for the reason that you suggest. But I'm one of the people (Im in the UK) who now wears helmets for both skiing and cycling. My cycle helmet almost certainly saved my life when a car gave me a knock and my head went onto the kerb. This was a slow collision in London traffic - probably doing about 10-12 MPh.

The transition on attitude towards skiing helmets (at least in European resorts) has been really interesting to watch. It has gone from being something that only children and the seriously hardcore off piste snowboarders.

I never used to wear one, and neither did most of the people I ski with, but over the last 5 years its changed until we now seriously judge people for being reckless if they won't wear a helmet.

The death of Natasha Richardson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natasha_Richardson#Injury_and_...) was fairly well publicised in the UK and I think that had a bit of a catalytic effect for us, but it was pushing at an open door of a change that was already happening.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#267

Post by CorbenDallas »

mpol wrote: post #254
CorbenDallas wrote: post #157

Amsterdam resident here. Such a good infrastructure and laws for the bycyclists make them not giving a single shit about the way they are actually driving their bycicles. And their behaviour and driving style is often very offensive to both pedestrians and car users. So it's not that straight and black and white.

That is mostly just Amsterdam. In the rest of the Netherlands this behaviour is being frowned upon. And it is often not the Dutch people. Half the people in Amsterdam is tourists.

Nah. Guy with bunch of very small kids on his bicycle crossing on red without throwing even a quick look is not a tourist - I'm living in Amsterdam for five years now and that's enough to understand that :)

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#268

Post by DavidHm »

CorbenDallas wrote: post #157

Amsterdam resident here. Such a good infrastructure and laws for the bycyclists make them not giving a single shit about the way they are actually driving their bycicles. And their behaviour and driving style is often very offensive to both pedestrians and car users. So it's not that straight and black and white.

Former Amsterdam resident here.

I feel a large part of this is the frustration with all the tourists just randomly wandering on the bike lanes without a care in the world.

It doesn't justify the behaviour, but it does explain it a little bit.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#269

Post by dirkdk »

I don't wear a helmet in my home town Amsterdam. I do wear a helmet here in San Francisco. Why? Car drivers are just not used to bicyclists in SF. Yes open their door without looking, turn without using their signals. And in general, don't pay attention and are on their phones all the time

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#270

Post by lmm »

jacquesm wrote: post #186
jdietrich wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking the lane is precisely what allows you to make room for motorists. If a motorist makes a close pass when you've taken the lane, you just steer away from them and create some space. If a motorist makes a close pass when you're already hugging the kerb, you have nowhere to go. The best case scenario is that you'll crash into something without too many sharp edges. Taking the lane doesn't mean acting as an immovab…

There are more cyclists than young agile males. And your advice only applies to those. I'm trying to imagine a 60 year old lady on a bike applying this advice and fail to see any happy endings. And where I live old ladies on bikes are extremely common. Cycling advice should apply to all cyclists, not just to those giving the advice.

What do you mean? A 60 year old lady would be safer in the main traffic lanes than in the gutter, for exactly the same reasons as anyone else - more visible from behind, more control over when cars pass them, no risk of hitting a car door etc.
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