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Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

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Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Third party code execution environments seems like a bit of a slippery slope that I can understand Apple wanting to avoid.

Pythonista presumably runs Python on the device and is allowed on the App Store.

Which is surprising tbh given Apple's rules and actions.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's obvious you are not a web developer using HTML5/CSS3/ES6. iOS has became the new Internet Explorer hands down, and now it's the first platform I test on to check for compatibility issues (as it's the one that normally gives those issues).

Nope. (Front end) web developer by trade. What I say I say from experience - I've never had a client ask for a feature that Safari doesn't support. However, clients do ask for things like a carousel, which Chrome doesn't support natively. iOS is a significantly easier support target compared to Android due to how much of a stable target it is. Android is a bit of a 'which Android?' when it comes to browser support.

thanks for writing that, now it's obvious you've never touched any frontend code

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#153
post #138
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For Apple, the App Store is not 'highly lucrative'.

Really? Don't they make 30% on every sale, including any subscriptions, iaps, and basically any money that changes hands? Don't they make it impossible for you to sell software that runs on iOS devices without them taking a cut? Wouldn't PWAs + some kind of external payment engine (paypal or whatever) completely bypass this? I realise they also make a lot on hardware, but it seems like that's a revenue stream they wo…

Their financial statements are pretty clear. Hardware is highly lucrative. Services, like the app store, are only recently consistently profitable. They definitely wouldn't intentionally make their devices less desirable to customers to increase service revenue.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#154

This actually could be something to hold up in court at least in EU. It's not really different from when Microsoft was doing something similar with their browser, using their market position to force people using IE. Apple could be forced to open their rendering engine and allow real fully fledged browsers to be used in iOS, because at this point, just fixing the compatibility to HTML standards on iOS may not be enou…

Actually, very different from Microsoft.

Apple has plenty of competition and the mobile web has not stalled.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> banning competition in the first place is okay? Yes. Anti-market behavior is the usage of monopoly (or near monopoly) to destroy competing companies after the fact with underhanded tactics and is generally agreed to be a Bad Thing. Apple's behavior when setting up iOS could be construed as anti-market, but the fact is that market never existed. Ergo if you setup a company to make a web browser for iOS, you can't cl…

Anti-competitive practices do not apply solely to monopolies. If it's proven there isn't a technical reason why iOS can't support other browser engine (like there wasn't in the Windows vs. Netscape case), a judge could rule the artificial ToS terms should be lifted. This happens every time a platform becomes too important/powerful. If Apple smartphones were niche devices with a very small user base, nobody would care…

I feel like "You as a company must allow your products to run X software" is a terrible, terrible precedent to set.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#157
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could be swayed that iOS is easier to target than some other browsers but Chrome? You can definitely build a slider natively... Maybe the confusion is that Chrome =/= Android Browser

> You can definitely build a slider natively... Nope http://caniuse.com/#search=snap

"Build natively" means to create it yourself in vanilla JavaScript, like this http://meandmax.github.io/lory/. What's the use of a native element that only one browser has when you need cross browser support anyway?

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#158
post #88

It's really hard to believe that Apple is holding back the 'mobile web' when it's shown time and time again that they have the best performing web platform in the market. It was true when iPhone was introduced in 2008, it was true in 2015[0] and it is still true now[1]. "In a nutshell, the fastest known Android device available today -- and there are millions of Android devices much slower than that out there -- perf…

Isn't it obvious? If they supported things like PWAs and other mobile web initiatives, people could build applications that run seamlessly on their phone, look like native apps etc, and they wouldn't go through their highly lucrative app store. As phones get more and more powerful and things come along and mature like webgl etc, the reliance on native apps drops more and more. As does Apple's control. Maybe I should…

Mobile safari was literally one of the reasons we decided to build an app instead of just having a mobile optimized website. So if that's they're strategy, it's working. Though it is a free app so it's not working _that_ well.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#159

Many of the HTML5 technologies Apple is steering clear from make the Web more App like meaning they become a threat to their dominance with the App Store on their own platform. The longer they take to adopt them the longer they can benefit from the exclusiveness and control over iOS app ecosystem. I don't think sueing them will get them anywhere but it might be a push to get them understand that users are aware of th…

From ordinary users, nobody cares about the web platform on mobile. Native apps are faster, with better integration to platform APIs and features, lighter on battery, and consistent (even if a large part of an app is just a webview in a native app shell). And for developers, they can actually be monetized and attract paying users, unlike mobile browser-based apps. Safari on mobile is pretty up to date as mobile techn…

> Safari on mobile is pretty up to date as mobile technologies come. Google Chrome is hardly any better: http://mobilehtml5.org/

Safari on iOS is missing ten checkboxes in your link; Chrome on Android is missing two.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#160
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Don't they make 30% on every sale, including any subscriptions, iaps, and basically any money that changes hands? Don't they make it impossible for you to sell software that runs on iOS devices without them taking a cut? Wouldn't PWAs + some kind of external payment engine (paypal or whatever) completely bypass this? I realise they also make a lot on hardware, but it seems like that's a revenue stream they wo…

Their financial statements are pretty clear. Hardware is highly lucrative. Services, like the app store, are only recently consistently profitable. They definitely wouldn't intentionally make their devices less desirable to customers to increase service revenue.

Do you have any thoughts as to why they don't allow people to install things from outside of the app store? Or why they require all purchases through apps to go through their payment methods where they take a 30% cut?

Because it is definitely making devices less desirable. I presume you still can't buy books from the Kindle iOS app, for example. I know you can't sub on twitch on iOS.

To continue with the kindle example, Amazon could build a kindle PWA that works offline, allows you to buy books, and in every way works identically to their thick client app (it's just displaying text after all, it's not technically demanding). And Apple wouldn't be able to block them from allowing you to buy things, because you're effectively just using a web browser.

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