Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS • Hacker News Board

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#121

Post by madeofpalk » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 1:31 PM UTC

NicoJuicy wrote: post #118

coldtea wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From ordinary users, nobody cares about the web platform on mobile. Native apps are faster, with better integration to platform APIs and features, lighter on battery, and consistent (even if a large part of an app is just a webview in a native app shell). And for developers, they can actually be monetized and attract paying users, unlike mobile browser-based apps. Safari on mobile is pretty up to date as mobile techn…

You probably never used "add to homescreen" before. PS. 50% of these group of apps are web applications - https://postimg.org/image/59r83pe5f/ Why shouldn't i be an ordinary user? All of these web apps are money related ;)

What feature does AliExpress on Android have that isnt supported by Safari?

Is that DHL site using Web Push Notifications for either Android or Apple platforms?

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#122

Post by aljones » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 1:31 PM UTC

captainmuon wrote: post #106

marcosdumay wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is almost nothing we can do about it. Don't buy their devices. Apple is not a government that can coerce you into submission.

If I put on my naïve glasses for a moment: Apple has a monopoly on iOS devices . There is no competition. And if somebody would built a better or freer iOS device, Apple would use the full force of the state to stop them. So, in a very narrow fashion, Apple does use their government-granted rights to coerce you to buy it's devices, if you want an iOS one. Of course, nowadays Android devices are more than adequate rep…

Apple has a monopoly on Apple branded devices. Well, ok.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#123

Post by coldtea » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 1:32 PM UTC

NicoJuicy wrote: post #118

coldtea wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From ordinary users, nobody cares about the web platform on mobile. Native apps are faster, with better integration to platform APIs and features, lighter on battery, and consistent (even if a large part of an app is just a webview in a native app shell). And for developers, they can actually be monetized and attract paying users, unlike mobile browser-based apps. Safari on mobile is pretty up to date as mobile techn…

You probably never used "add to homescreen" before. PS. 50% of these group of apps are web applications - https://postimg.org/image/59r83pe5f/ Why shouldn't i be an ordinary user? All of these web apps are money related ;)

>You probably never used "add to homescreen" before

Used it. Never liked it.

>Why shouldn't i be an ordinary user? All of these web apps are money related ;)

Ordinary user meant as in about numbers/outliers, not about some specific characteristic of the user.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#124

Post by j_s » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 1:32 PM UTC

madeofpalk wrote: post #45

It's really hard to believe that Apple is holding back the 'mobile web' when it's shown time and time again that they have the best performing web platform in the market. It was true when iPhone was introduced in 2008, it was true in 2015[0] and it is still true now[1]. "In a nutshell, the fastest known Android device available today -- and there are millions of Android devices much slower than that out there -- perf…

If speed is truly the deciding factor, the Links text-only web browser is pretty fast.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#125

Post by mikegerwitz » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 1:32 PM UTC

fpgeek wrote: post #93

mikegerwitz wrote: post #83

I'm far from one to defend Apple on most things, but is Apple doing anything intentionally malicious here? In the United States, forcing someone to write code is compelled speech, which is a violation of the First Amendment. I'm not aware of laws in France, but in any case, this seems like a completely wrong approach to solving this problem. The real problem here is Apple's proprietary platform.

I agree that Apple's management of their platform is the underlying problem, but there's no compelled speech here. Writing code to provide better HTML5 support is only one of the ways Apple could satisfy this complaint. Lifting the developer agreement / Apple App Store restrictions that prevent third-party developers from writing browsers with better HTML5 support is another.

Ah, I see, thank you for the clarification.

That would indeed be beneficial.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#126

Post by coldtea » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 1:33 PM UTC

arxpoetica wrote: post #120

coldtea wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From ordinary users, nobody cares about the web platform on mobile. Native apps are faster, with better integration to platform APIs and features, lighter on battery, and consistent (even if a large part of an app is just a webview in a native app shell). And for developers, they can actually be monetized and attract paying users, unlike mobile browser-based apps. Safari on mobile is pretty up to date as mobile techn…

Yes, but people DO care about bad web browsing experiences. False correlation here.

Which is beside the point, as here we're talking about web apps, not mere browsing.

Is there much missing from Safari for 99% of web browsing needs?

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#127

Post by jbmorgado » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 1:33 PM UTC

This actually could be something to hold up in court at least in EU.

It's not really different from when Microsoft was doing something similar with their browser, using their market position to force people using IE.

Apple could be forced to open their rendering engine and allow real fully fledged browsers to be used in iOS, because at this point, just fixing the compatibility to HTML standards on iOS may not be enough anymore.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#128

Post by zajd » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 1:33 PM UTC

madeofpalk wrote: post #110

franciscop wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's obvious you are not a web developer using HTML5/CSS3/ES6. iOS has became the new Internet Explorer hands down, and now it's the first platform I test on to check for compatibility issues (as it's the one that normally gives those issues).

Nope. (Front end) web developer by trade. What I say I say from experience - I've never had a client ask for a feature that Safari doesn't support. However, clients do ask for things like a carousel, which Chrome doesn't support natively. iOS is a significantly easier support target compared to Android due to how much of a stable target it is. Android is a bit of a 'which Android?' when it comes to browser support.

I could be swayed that iOS is easier to target than some other browsers but Chrome? You can definitely build a slider natively...

Maybe the confusion is that Chrome =/= Android Browser

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#129

Post by amelius » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 1:33 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #104

kyriakos wrote: post #81

Many of the HTML5 technologies Apple is steering clear from make the Web more App like meaning they become a threat to their dominance with the App Store on their own platform. The longer they take to adopt them the longer they can benefit from the exclusiveness and control over iOS app ecosystem. I don't think sueing them will get them anywhere but it might be a push to get them understand that users are aware of th…

From ordinary users, nobody cares about the web platform on mobile. Native apps are faster, with better integration to platform APIs and features, lighter on battery, and consistent (even if a large part of an app is just a webview in a native app shell). And for developers, they can actually be monetized and attract paying users, unlike mobile browser-based apps. Safari on mobile is pretty up to date as mobile techn…

> From ordinary users, nobody cares about the web platform on mobile. Native apps are faster

Well, that's a problem right there. Instead of helping the web forward, Apple is keeping the web and web-apps second-class citizens. And of course this helps their own app platform and app store to be successful, and as a bonus it keeps developers within the walls of their garden.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#130

Post by madeofpalk » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 1:34 PM UTC

amelius wrote: post #129

coldtea wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From ordinary users, nobody cares about the web platform on mobile. Native apps are faster, with better integration to platform APIs and features, lighter on battery, and consistent (even if a large part of an app is just a webview in a native app shell). And for developers, they can actually be monetized and attract paying users, unlike mobile browser-based apps. Safari on mobile is pretty up to date as mobile techn…

> From ordinary users, nobody cares about the web platform on mobile. Native apps are faster Well, that's a problem right there. Instead of helping the web forward, Apple is keeping the web and web-apps second-class citizens. And of course this helps their own app platform and app store to be successful, and as a bonus it keeps developers within the walls of their garden.

I don't understand how they can ever have parity though. Whatever a html/javascript web app can do is always going to work better in a native browser, regardless of your platform.