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Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

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Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#101

Post by gcp »

namaemuta wrote: post #100
kyriakos wrote: post #81

Many of the HTML5 technologies Apple is steering clear from make the Web more App like meaning they become a threat to their dominance with the App Store on their own platform. The longer they take to adopt them the longer they can benefit from the exclusiveness and control over iOS app ecosystem. I don't think sueing them will get them anywhere but it might be a push to get them understand that users are aware of th…

It's the Chrome version of the apple store also restricted in its html5 features?

If you mean the Android store, then no. You can for example find the "real" Firefox on the Google Play store. (The one on the Apple store is a Safari skin which has the problems the article points out)

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#102

Post by cageface »

simonh wrote: post #22
sgift wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to know. If a court decision forces them to allow other browser (engines) on iOS and people start moving away from Safari Apple may decide that it is in their best interest to make Safari the best web experience if they want to (re)attract those customers. See Microsoft and Edge.

Right, but I know Apple has argued at W3C against certain web standards and for others on the basis of security in a mobile context, power efficiency and functional alignment with touch UI behaviours. We don't know why Apple has chosen to implement some features (so far) and not others. Do you really want French courts deciding those kinds of technical decisions or taking those decisions away from mobile platform ven…

Apple can make those arguments all they want but then they should allow third party browsers on iOS and let users have a choice. I don't buy the argument that browser engines somehow pose a unique security risk and have to be completely banned from the platform.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#103

Post by thomasahle »

namaemuta wrote: post #100
kyriakos wrote: post #81

Many of the HTML5 technologies Apple is steering clear from make the Web more App like meaning they become a threat to their dominance with the App Store on their own platform. The longer they take to adopt them the longer they can benefit from the exclusiveness and control over iOS app ecosystem. I don't think sueing them will get them anywhere but it might be a push to get them understand that users are aware of th…

It's the Chrome version of the apple store also restricted in its html5 features?

Afaik All 'browsers' in the app store have to be just a skin on top of Safari. Apple has rules against independent rendering code.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#104

Post by coldtea »

kyriakos wrote: post #81

Many of the HTML5 technologies Apple is steering clear from make the Web more App like meaning they become a threat to their dominance with the App Store on their own platform. The longer they take to adopt them the longer they can benefit from the exclusiveness and control over iOS app ecosystem. I don't think sueing them will get them anywhere but it might be a push to get them understand that users are aware of th…

From ordinary users, nobody cares about the web platform on mobile.

Native apps are faster, with better integration to platform APIs and features, lighter on battery, and consistent (even if a large part of an app is just a webview in a native app shell).

And for developers, they can actually be monetized and attract paying users, unlike mobile browser-based apps.

Safari on mobile is pretty up to date as mobile technologies come. Google Chrome is hardly any better:

http://mobilehtml5.org/

So I don't really buy the conspiracy theory. People just want all kinds of desktop level HTML5 stuff on mobile browsers that they might or might not be suitable for. The most common HN response to Web 3D demos, advanced SVG/canvas etc is that people's fans started to blaze, CPU jumped to the sky...

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#105

Post by NicoJuicy »

madeofpalk wrote: post #64
NicoJuicy wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HTML 5 IS part of the web, so why shouldn't it? By not having several html 5 functions, you actually disallow access/usage to certain websites.

Lets be honest here, are you saying that a web-based real-time-communications API is a basic human right? > Apple has no reason to "not" include it, except financial gain. The reason they have not to include it is that they have different priorities than browser vendors who want to jam mobile browsers full of every unripe API under the sun (like those that dangerously leak user's real connection info even when behind…

I'm saying that yes, webrtc is part of the HTML 5 web and so should be a basic human right.

I'm not saying that it is though.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#106

Post by captainmuon »

marcosdumay wrote: post #76
NicoJuicy wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand your point of view and you are probably right. But to my opinion, everyone here knows Apple is blocking HTML 5 somewhat and there is almost nothing we can do about it. PS. General public/buyers don't know and i already changed from iOS, because "add to homescreen" doesn't work as well as on Android

> there is almost nothing we can do about it. Don't buy their devices. Apple is not a government that can coerce you into submission.

If I put on my naïve glasses for a moment:

Apple has a monopoly on iOS devices. There is no competition. And if somebody would built a better or freer iOS device, Apple would use the full force of the state to stop them. So, in a very narrow fashion, Apple does use their government-granted rights to coerce you to buy it's devices, if you want an iOS one.

Of course, nowadays Android devices are more than adequate replacements for many users, so most people do have the option to buy outside of the Apple world, as you suggest.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#107

Post by efdee »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #52
kbart wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really doubt you could pass HTML5 compatibility as a "basic internet access".

HTML 5 IS part of the web, so why shouldn't it? By not having several html 5 functions, you actually disallow access/usage to certain websites.

Calling HTML5 a basic human right erodes the concept of basic human rights. Please don't do it.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#109

Post by iancarroll »

madeofpalk wrote: post #72
themihai wrote: post #30

Some(Apple) may say that the web/browser ecosystem is mess and it's not worth the investment though. However the restrictions on 3rd party browsers is weird. The application is sandboxed (thus no additional security threats compared to other apps) so I think the argument is political not technical.

Third party code execution environments seems like a bit of a slippery slope that I can understand Apple wanting to avoid.

Pythonista presumably runs Python on the device and is allowed on the App Store.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#110

Post by madeofpalk »

franciscop wrote: post #85
madeofpalk wrote: post #45

It's really hard to believe that Apple is holding back the 'mobile web' when it's shown time and time again that they have the best performing web platform in the market. It was true when iPhone was introduced in 2008, it was true in 2015[0] and it is still true now[1]. "In a nutshell, the fastest known Android device available today -- and there are millions of Android devices much slower than that out there -- perf…

It's obvious you are not a web developer using HTML5/CSS3/ES6. iOS has became the new Internet Explorer hands down, and now it's the first platform I test on to check for compatibility issues (as it's the one that normally gives those issues).

Nope. (Front end) web developer by trade. What I say I say from experience - I've never had a client ask for a feature that Safari doesn't support. However, clients do ask for things like a carousel, which Chrome doesn't support natively.

iOS is a significantly easier support target compared to Android due to how much of a stable target it is. Android is a bit of a 'which Android?' when it comes to browser support.

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