Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store

#301

Post by jomamaxx » Thu, Oct 06, 2016, 1:28 AM UTC

fattire wrote: post #265

Rotten194 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You act like there's a choice -- customers get apps through the app store, so that's where developers have to be if they want to eat.

The choice is that if you're going to develop software for sale to the public, you can choose to develop software for sale in another market which is not so restrictive and oppressive. Other platforms and marketplaces exist, and money can be made there. To contemplate the actual possibility of sweating for years building a business, slaving over software, creating marketing campaigns, and a brand and fighting to beat…

"The choice is that if you're going to develop software for sale to the public, you can choose to develop software for sale in another market which is not so restrictive and oppressive."

The smartphone 'market' is an oligarchy, ergo, it's not really a free market, and those kinds of principled positions just don't hold.

It's pretty reasonable to argue that Apple's arbitrary control of the AppStore is an anti-competitive practice.

If the market were commoditized, like, the choice you have for where you want to 'eat lunch' or 'buy a car' - it would be different.

Re: Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store

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Post by gumby » Thu, Oct 06, 2016, 1:29 AM UTC

vbezhenar wrote: post #238

dandare wrote: post #234

I am annoyed by something else: today Apple stepped on the wrong toe, the community will cry foul and someone from Apple who reads HN will rush to salvage the situation. We have seen this pattern before (usually but not exclusively with Apple). But what about the thousands of small and nameless developers that were crushed by some script bug or killed by operator misclick? Who will ever help them?

Human support is supposed to help them. What I found unacceptable is "We are banning you and we won't tell you anything about it". This pattern is extremely common. And extremely frustrating. You can't put one in jail without telling why (and right to defend). In many developed countries you can't even fire a worker without a solid reason. It should be prohibited for companies to halt service someone without providin…

How should the law define "reasonable explanation?" In the US that kind of thing is litigated, which small companies can't afford.

Such protections exist for employees, involve lots of lawyers and complexity, and sometimes screw companies and sometimes screw employees and sometimes screw both (though they do also fill an important need). But the economic cost of compliance and management of these rules is quite high, and there are a lot more employees than software developers by several orders of magnitude.

Re: Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store

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Post by habitue » Thu, Oct 06, 2016, 1:29 AM UTC

paulddraper wrote: post #290

habitue wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we drop the whole "need to eat" language when talking about software development? We're talking about people with abundant opportunity to make tons of money. Tugging on the heartstrings with "they need to eat" or "feed their families" is preposterously over the top rhetoric.

I can't speak for you, but my family needs to eat. Can I choose my opportunities? To some extent.

Yes of course, your family needs to eat and you need to eat. If you're most concerned with just making enough money to eat, you have a huge number of jobs available. If your app's failure vs. success is the difference between eating and not eating, you've made that decision consciously, knowing that you (necessarily) have the skills to get other jobs without such dire consequences.

The point I was making is that this rhetorical device of "I need to eat" is used way too often as a euphemism for "I want to make a lot of money". It's used that way because the former statement elicits sympathy and the latter statement attracts derision.

In the context of the original comment, the "need to eat" phrase was used in the context of an app developer. You don't create an app on the app store as a last ditch attempt to feed your family. You do it to make money, and you do it knowing the risk that it won't be successful and you won't make any money. Apple's inscrutable opaque approval process is another annoying risk on top of that, but whether you're going to eat shouldn't be a part of the equation here.

Re: Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store

#304

Post by cageface » Thu, Oct 06, 2016, 1:31 AM UTC

edoceo wrote: post #43

I make a regulatory compliance software. Apple refused to list my App until I removed functionality at their request. Functionality that is required for compliance. Apple's arrogance in running their store may eventually cause it's decline.

Arrogance is exactly the right word. Arrogance that is not justified at all by their execution lately. Developers were willing to look the other way while the app store gold rush lasted but those days are long over and it's increasingly looking like a Faustian bargain sold cheap.

Re: Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store

#305

Post by JadeNB » Thu, Oct 06, 2016, 1:33 AM UTC

DiabloD3 wrote: post #50

latj wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is going after Google for allowing third party stores. Google's trouble in Europe is about: 1. Not paying taxes 2. Using their dominance in Search to promote their other products and services while obscuring competitors 3. Using their dominance in mobile to promote their search and web browser 4. Not allowing third parties to use the Play Store which is the default and dominate store for android devices. Allow…

Not allowing third party stores in the Store is a security feature because they can install APKs that have not passed through Google's security scanner. Google does not prohibit you from installing third party stores. Also, how are they using their dominance for search and browsers to do something? I can install Firefox on Android, I cannot install Firefox on iOS. I can do "Hey, Cortana" if I install Cortana on my An…

> I cannot install Firefox on iOS.

Yes you can.

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/ios

Re: Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store

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Post by lucaspiller » Thu, Oct 06, 2016, 1:34 AM UTC

brianwawok wrote: post #283

fattire wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have other means to distribute your app w/Android, including self-distribution. It's an uphill climb to be sure, but there are apps who do that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but iOS doesn't offer that opportunity as sideloading and non-Apple markets are not possible unless you jailbreak your device

Can you name a single Android app that has even made 100k distributed via side loading? I can't.

su?

Re: Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store

#307

Post by redial » Thu, Oct 06, 2016, 1:34 AM UTC

izacus wrote: post #154

redial wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They still sell the iPhone 6S and the SE.

Well, I'm afraid you kinda missed my larger point due to a nitpick into an example. Please replace it with something else appropriate (physical keyboard? USB-C or microUSB port? whatever really) and argue about that :/

Then you should have mention that and not use your weak arguments to try to prove your point.

I have an iPhone and I don't use HomeKit, AppleTV, CarPlay or the iTunes Store, and use Whatsapp instead of iMessage.

And I'm afraid I can't see how replacing the headphone jack with a physical keyboard would make your argument better. If you want to charge your phone using microUSB there are hundreds of options.

Re: Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store

#308

Post by oldmanjay » Thu, Oct 06, 2016, 1:34 AM UTC

KirinDave wrote: post #281

habitue wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we drop the whole "need to eat" language when talking about software development? We're talking about people with abundant opportunity to make tons of money. Tugging on the heartstrings with "they need to eat" or "feed their families" is preposterously over the top rhetoric.

It is not the case that all developers have easy access to abundant income. It is at least as wrong to assume that is true as to assume that they are living hand to mouth.

It is fairly easy to assume that there are other routes to food than publishing apps in Apple's App Store. No one is guaranteed abundant income in general, never mind via some third-party business.

Re: Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store

#309

Post by 13of40 » Thu, Oct 06, 2016, 1:34 AM UTC

chii wrote: post #293

13of40 wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? I don't think the idea is that they can't stop service for whatever reason, but that they have to provide a reason. On the other hand, I guess it doesn't have any teeth if they can just say, "Because you smell funny plus it's Tuesday..."

What about price discrimination? Should that be legal or illegal?

Do you mean the kind where my wedding cake costs twice as much because I'm gay or the kind where my car insurance costs twice as much because I'm a serial car wrecker?

Re: Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store

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Post by KirinDave » Thu, Oct 06, 2016, 1:37 AM UTC

oldmanjay wrote: post #308

KirinDave wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not the case that all developers have easy access to abundant income. It is at least as wrong to assume that is true as to assume that they are living hand to mouth.

It is fairly easy to assume that there are other routes to food than publishing apps in Apple's App Store. No one is guaranteed abundant income in general, never mind via some third-party business.

Sorry, I don't understand how your conversation is relevant to the conversation.