Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store

#261

Post by dothis9 » Wed, Oct 05, 2016, 11:39 PM UTC

edoceo wrote: post #108

pavel_lishin wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What functionality did they want removed?

Without getting too into it, they thought some data visible in the App was in violation of US drug law (Schedule 1) Yet other, semi-related consumer apps have this data. In fact other apps in the store assist with the purchase/sale of these regulated items. A clear violation of Apple policy. I'm not so mad about being blocked. I'm really mad about the inconsistent/random application of said policy.

Translation: edoceo built an app to help marijuana stores sell weed and keep track of weed and implement controls on the amount of weed purchased and where it came from and where it went.

Other apps either do the same thing or are less obvious about what their functionality is for, and Apple ignores it or is unaware or turns a blind eye.

edoceo thought an app which documents compliance with State law (and documents non-compliance with Federal law) should be allowed in the app store. Apple didn't.

Re: Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store

#262

Post by lihebi » Wed, Oct 05, 2016, 11:42 PM UTC

Just want to complain that I bought Dash 2, and there's no way to access it after the Dash 3 is out. I don't understand why the guy wants to make money this way. Good job Apple.

Re: Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store

#263

Post by dj-wonk » Wed, Oct 05, 2016, 11:44 PM UTC

Rotten194 wrote: post #259

fattire wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take this question for what it is-- I'm not blaming the victim here-- but how much responsibility do small and nameless developers bear for making a deal with the devil to begin with? Don't they go into this knowing that Apple can at any time capriciously cut them off from the sole means of distribution of their product at will? I get that there is money to be made on the iOS app store-- but why is there a willingnes…

You act like there's a choice -- customers get apps through the app store, so that's where developers have to be if they want to eat.

When people say "there is no choice" it usually means there is a choice. A better way to have the discussion is to avoid the binary framing and talk about the tradeoffs.

Here is one key tradeoff I see: the App Store brings more visibility in exchange for a cost. This situation accentuates another downside: plug-pulling for intentional or unintentional reasons.

FWIW, I use plenty of apps not on the app store.

Re: Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store

#264

Post by fzzzy » Wed, Oct 05, 2016, 11:47 PM UTC

halestock wrote: post #255

bobsil1 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, without the apps the phone wouldn't sell in those numbers. In their eyes they are dependent on the devs.

The iphone sold in those numbers even before there was an App Store.

No, it really didn't. The first iPhone was 2G and it was a year before the app store was available.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/263401/global-apple-ipho...

Re: Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store

#265

Post by fattire » Wed, Oct 05, 2016, 11:48 PM UTC

Rotten194 wrote: post #259

fattire wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take this question for what it is-- I'm not blaming the victim here-- but how much responsibility do small and nameless developers bear for making a deal with the devil to begin with? Don't they go into this knowing that Apple can at any time capriciously cut them off from the sole means of distribution of their product at will? I get that there is money to be made on the iOS app store-- but why is there a willingnes…

You act like there's a choice -- customers get apps through the app store, so that's where developers have to be if they want to eat.

The choice is that if you're going to develop software for sale to the public, you can choose to develop software for sale in another market which is not so restrictive and oppressive. Other platforms and marketplaces exist, and money can be made there. To contemplate the actual possibility of sweating for years building a business, slaving over software, creating marketing campaigns, and a brand and fighting to beat out the competition, all while knowing that at any point for any reason Apple may decide to pull the plug and leave me with absolutely nothing-- no sellable product and no other avenue to sell it-- sounds like a pretty obvious choice: Don't ever get in business under circumstances like that unless there truly is no other choice.

Stories like this from Dash (and others) is a real-living and breathing worst-case scenario... it makes the choice to not participate in this marketplace all the more obvious to me.

Re: Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store

#266

Post by sithadmin » Wed, Oct 05, 2016, 11:49 PM UTC

vbezhenar wrote: post #238

dandare wrote: post #234

I am annoyed by something else: today Apple stepped on the wrong toe, the community will cry foul and someone from Apple who reads HN will rush to salvage the situation. We have seen this pattern before (usually but not exclusively with Apple). But what about the thousands of small and nameless developers that were crushed by some script bug or killed by operator misclick? Who will ever help them?

Human support is supposed to help them. What I found unacceptable is "We are banning you and we won't tell you anything about it". This pattern is extremely common. And extremely frustrating. You can't put one in jail without telling why (and right to defend). In many developed countries you can't even fire a worker without a solid reason. It should be prohibited for companies to halt service someone without providin…

>It should be prohibited for companies to halt service someone without providing a reasonable explanation.

By US standards, that would require an absurd level of legislative and/or judicial overreach. I don't think I'd even want to do business in that kind of regulatory climate.

Re: Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store

#267

Post by choicewords » Wed, Oct 05, 2016, 11:49 PM UTC

neves wrote: post #196

rimantas wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try contacting Google about anything.

I think he has a good point. A lot of our business and life are under the rule of big private companies. We are merciless to question their behavior even when their acts have great impact upon us. Sure, we should add add a lot of names to this list: "Try contacting [Apple|Google|EBay|PayPal|AmazonAws|.*] about anything."

I'd like to say that it is possible to reach paypyal. They've even been moderately effective.

Re: Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store

#268

Post by habitue » Wed, Oct 05, 2016, 11:49 PM UTC

Rotten194 wrote: post #259

fattire wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take this question for what it is-- I'm not blaming the victim here-- but how much responsibility do small and nameless developers bear for making a deal with the devil to begin with? Don't they go into this knowing that Apple can at any time capriciously cut them off from the sole means of distribution of their product at will? I get that there is money to be made on the iOS app store-- but why is there a willingnes…

You act like there's a choice -- customers get apps through the app store, so that's where developers have to be if they want to eat.

Can we drop the whole "need to eat" language when talking about software development? We're talking about people with abundant opportunity to make tons of money. Tugging on the heartstrings with "they need to eat" or "feed their families" is preposterously over the top rhetoric.

Re: Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store

#269

Post by choicewords » Wed, Oct 05, 2016, 11:52 PM UTC

joemi wrote: post #240

henji76 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For seller accounts, Amazon provides tons of indicators that let you know you are about to be shut down. After being shut down, you can fix the problem, prove that you fixed it and they may let you sell again on their platform. You should never be faced to a wall, unless you know you cheated the system someway.

That's not quite right. I've been selling on Amazon for 6+ years and have lost selling privileges a few times (every time due to an issue with our order management software). Sometimes dealing with it was as you described. But I can state factually that they don't always indicate that you're about to be shut down, nor do they always make it remotely easy to get back on or even figure out why you were shut down. For i…

measured on performance/risk on the Seller Performance and no one wanted to take a chance on you?

i'm just guessing here.

Re: Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store

#270

Post by choicewords » Wed, Oct 05, 2016, 11:53 PM UTC

makecheck wrote: post #109

codazoda wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can't give you advanced notice for "fraud" though. If your app actually commits fraud it's got to go right away to limit the amount of fraud you commit. They at least think some kind of fraud was happening, correctly or not.

No, they still could. The message could say: “We have received X complaints of fraud for your app, "Totally Not a Scam Lite", and it will be removed in 2 days unless you contact us immediately at number >. In addition, if this is found to be true, any sales of your app will be refunded and not credited to your developer account.”.

You should have downloaded "Totally Not a Scam Pro" when it was on the store!