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Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

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Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#321

Post by gutnor »

Teever wrote: post #222
quanticle wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what OP is trying to point out. It's easy to be "self-made" when you can get a million dollar loan from your dad to get your real-estate business off the ground. It's easy to be self-made when your dad works at Seattle's most prestigious law firm and can arrange an introduction with IBM's PC hardware division. It's significantly more difficult to be self-made when you have no connections and no capital…

I don't understand. none of those examples are 'self-made'

If you are born in the Western World, it is like starting a marathon 5 km away from the finish line and still be in the same race than the one starting at the beginning.

When you start thinking everything you get for free, even just in a lower middle western family, compared to someone born in a war torn village in Africa, the concept of "self-made" becomes really meaningless.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#322

Post by Kenji »

jimmywanger wrote: post #133

This is precisely the reason why affirmative action/outreach efforts should be based on socioeconomic status, not race or gender. This vietnamese guy has hard a much harder time of it than any black, middle class, female growing up in a nice middle class suburb, but he's the one who's discriminated against during college admission and job interviews, and applications for scholarships and coding academies and such.

I couldn't agree more. That's how it is where I live and there aren't many brilliant people who are barred from getting good education because of financial problems.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#323

Post by walshemj »

dwaltrip wrote: post #313
walshemj wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No its the Sam Vimes boot theory. "The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten do…

One doesn't acquire multiple millions (or more) by buying expensive, high-quality items. Clearly, this is not the primary driver of wealth accumulation.

It is if it save you money over the longer term

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#324

Post by efaref »

trjordan wrote: post #3

I wish I could remember where I read this, but I once heard it explained to me as this: It's easy to deride the journey of the rich college student: 80-hour internships at Goldman Sachs, unpaid positions in government, etc. But, the things that are done by successful people are hard, as hard as walking a tightrope. The difference is that rich students walk this tightrope over a bed of pillows. Poor students walk it o…

The really poor also don't have the rope.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#325

Post by efaref »

st3v3r wrote: post #256
ktRolster wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>going from $1M to $2M is almost inevitable. If that were true, I could easily borrow it now and make my way there.

Yeah, but borrowing it would fall under the "going from $0 to $1MM" part.

In terms of net assets, no it's not. It's going from $0 to, say, -$50,000 as now you owe interest.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#326

Post by gutnor »

wolfgke wrote: post #317
wangchow wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly no one is self-made. People who don't have financial cushions still rely on others to back their idea and hard work. Problem is everyone on HN is talking about how to make millions when that's backwards mentality because then you'll never be satisfied. People need to strive for modest salaries and things that benefit society and the planet not filling one's pockets.

> People need to strive for modest salaries and things that benefit society and the planet not filling one's pockets. It's a lot easier to do projects that benefit society and the planet if you have millions in your pocket that you can spend/invest on them (say for paying employees or simply having financial runway).

There is some truth in what parent is saying though. We have reach a point in the West were a comfortable life is basically possible for everyone. However, we still have the bullish culture from after the war that paints a guy that want a simple life as some sort of loser.

So we go on holiday and marvel at the simple life of artisans, farmer or other, but we teach our children that such a lifestyle is a failure.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#327

Post by wolfgke »

gutnor wrote: post #326
wolfgke wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People need to strive for modest salaries and things that benefit society and the planet not filling one's pockets. It's a lot easier to do projects that benefit society and the planet if you have millions in your pocket that you can spend/invest on them (say for paying employees or simply having financial runway).

There is some truth in what parent is saying though. We have reach a point in the West were a comfortable life is basically possible for everyone. However, we still have the bullish culture from after the war that paints a guy that want a simple life as some sort of loser. So we go on holiday and marvel at the simple life of artisans, farmer or other, but we teach our children that such a lifestyle is a failure.

Everybody who thinks that their salary is too large is free to donate a large(r) part of the salary to things that he cares of. So if you think you earn a more modest salary, do so. The problem is that most people who talk of "more modest salaries" mean "others should have more modest salaries". Better call this envy.

> So we go on holiday and marvel at the simple life of artisans, farmer or other.

I surely don't.

> We have reach a point in the West were a comfortable life is basically possible for everyone. However, we still have the bullish culture from after the war that paints a guy that want a simple life as some sort of loser.

And what made it possible that leading a comfortable life is basically possible for everyone? Surely not the people who want a simple life.

I can accept that technology has become too complicated for most people to grasp. I am among the first to accept this as a problem. But if this is your opinion, start to develop technology that is easier to grasp instead of complaining how complicated anything has become. The same holds for laws, too.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#328

Post by marcosdumay »

speeder wrote: post #122
marcosdumay wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a small point, but personal bankruptcy really does exist in Brazil. The rules are different from the US (may be even better for poor people), and sometimes surprising. But it does exist, and lawyers will help you if you ever need it.

I've read a OAB statements that what exists is "personal insolvency". If you prove that (yes, you have to prove it, including hiring lawyers and all to do that), then you can't own or manage business for 5 years, all your assets are sold, and all future earnings are used to pay debts. Also, you can't use banking services and credit cards for 10 years, and can't do any commercial transactions for 5 years. The deal is…

Yes, it sucks. But if you ever see yourself in a position where you can not pay your debits, I strongly recommend you to talk to a lawyer.

The main reason people don't declare insolvency is because there are better options. But I don't know enough to advise people about them - by a wide margin.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#329

Post by robalfonso »

walshemj wrote: post #187
germinalphrase wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another way of thinking about this is the phrase: it's expensive being poor. If you don't have the excess income to absorb these small mistakes/oversights/misfortunes then there are secondary effects (job loss, civil fines, court fees, etc.) that can destroy you financially. Edit: butchered my phrase

No its the Sam Vimes boot theory. "The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten do…

I just bought a 600 dollar pair of boots, the primary features being quality build,materials, and the ability to re-sole - they will last me 30 years if I take care of them.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#330

Post by bagacrap »

tajen wrote: post #73

I'm in France and I sometimes notice that USA articles focus only on underpriviledged talent . Why only the talents? It's a bit like rape is fought against, except in prisons because they're lower-grade citizen. Or like articles describing unwarranted violence from the SWAT teams: "The family was playing poker, they got busted for illegal gaming, 3 died" will trigger fewer reaction than "The SWAT team killed the dog.…

Because the American dream is to reward merit, ignoring provenance. The American dream says nothing about providing good lives to those without merit.

Also normally merit is defined to include "hard working", not merely "talented". I think there's less sympathy for lazy talent than vice versa.

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