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Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

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Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#71

Post by oatmealsnap »

googletazer wrote: post #37
ryandrake wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I knew someone who was so aggressively proud of their success, having founded and grown a successful business. He'd talk your ear off about how people like him were the ones adding value to society and how unsuccessful people are just lazy and don't try hard enough or don't take enough risks, or are just deadbeats, and how successful, hard working people are punished with taxes--you know, the standard soapbox speech.…

I see what you're saying, but to be the devil's advocate - someone at some point in the family of "Cartoon Republican Villain" was also a poor sob with a single shot to make it. The tragedy is that he forgot, or never knew about it.

You've comparing the success of one poor sob with the success of a lineage of rich/poor sobs. It's much easier to be rich than to get rich, because a lineage has several shots to make it big.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#72

Post by paulcole »

ryandrake wrote: post #26
trjordan wrote: post #3

I wish I could remember where I read this, but I once heard it explained to me as this: It's easy to deride the journey of the rich college student: 80-hour internships at Goldman Sachs, unpaid positions in government, etc. But, the things that are done by successful people are hard, as hard as walking a tightrope. The difference is that rich students walk this tightrope over a bed of pillows. Poor students walk it o…

I knew someone who was so aggressively proud of their success, having founded and grown a successful business. He'd talk your ear off about how people like him were the ones adding value to society and how unsuccessful people are just lazy and don't try hard enough or don't take enough risks, or are just deadbeats, and how successful, hard working people are punished with taxes--you know, the standard soapbox speech.…

Some people are born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#73

Post by tajen »

I'm in France and I sometimes notice that USA articles focus only on underpriviledged talent. Why only the talents? It's a bit like rape is fought against, except in prisons because they're lower-grade citizen. Or like articles describing unwarranted violence from the SWAT teams: "The family was playing poker, they got busted for illegal gaming, 3 died" will trigger fewer reaction than "The SWAT team killed the dog." US articles often focus on a subset of the unpriviledged population.

Let's recall that our civilization needs to take care of everyone, even if they're not talented or guilty at some level. Not everyone is cute, but everyone needs to be saved.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#74

Post by pessimizer »

phd514 wrote: post #61
trjordan wrote: post #3

I wish I could remember where I read this, but I once heard it explained to me as this: It's easy to deride the journey of the rich college student: 80-hour internships at Goldman Sachs, unpaid positions in government, etc. But, the things that are done by successful people are hard, as hard as walking a tightrope. The difference is that rich students walk this tightrope over a bed of pillows. Poor students walk it o…

It's too easy to generalize this as a lack of money problem. Certainly lack of money is a factor, but so is attitude and character. There are plenty of examples of people from lower income backgrounds rising above their backgrounds even with setbacks along the way because they persevered through difficulties. There are also plenty of examples of people who failed and squandered lots of opportunities. There's an eleme…

As far as I can tall, people from underprivileged backgrounds make it through socializing and sleeping with people from privileged backgrounds as often as possible. Rich people attract opportunities (and are opportunities.) Being near them gives you your best chances, and your best opportunity in life to befriend those people is in university.

> There are also plenty of examples of people who failed and squandered lots of opportunities.

Rich people fail all the time. They fail up nearly as often as they fail down, though. And if they avoid drug problems, they never fail out.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#75

Post by tptacek »

trjordan wrote: post #3

I wish I could remember where I read this, but I once heard it explained to me as this: It's easy to deride the journey of the rich college student: 80-hour internships at Goldman Sachs, unpaid positions in government, etc. But, the things that are done by successful people are hard, as hard as walking a tightrope. The difference is that rich students walk this tightrope over a bed of pillows. Poor students walk it o…

You are also partially describing stereotype threat (there's more to it than that).

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#76

Post by tptacek »

rayiner wrote: post #65
gautamdivgi wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a travesty of our justice system (or maybe any justice system). The more money you have, the better your lawyers, the better deals can be cut. The rich & upper middle-class will probably just get off with a slap on the wrist (if that). The poor & lower-middle class with not so many means and court appointed lawyers get the harshest sentences and are basically used as statistics for your public prosecutors pro…

I think that's an overly simplistic view. Are prosecutors dropping shoplifting charges for "upper middle class" people because they brought in an $1,000/hour lawyer? Real life prosecutors aren't quite so cartoon villain-y. The bigger issue is that (1) laws are enforced more harshly in poor areas because there is pressure on prosecutors to focus on high-crime areas; (2) poor people are much more likely to be within on…

Yes, I believe they are.

Prosecutors try to spend their time on the cases they can win. You don't even have to be criminally charged to see how farcical the system is: just go to traffic court sometime and watch how the system handles people with lawyers.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#77

Post by [deleted] »

ajkjk wrote: post #22

For a year or so I've been keeping an ad hoc record (a text file!), to the best of my ability, of all my financial losses due to personal mistakes - so, moving out of my old apartment a month late was a 1200$ mistake, and dropping and breaking my phone was a 200$ one. I'm also trying to keep track of very risky behavior that didn't become an actual financial loss: driving in NYC during the blizzard last year didn't a…

[deleted]

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#78

Post by simplemath »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #67
allovera wrote: post #63

This article had me in tears. I grew up so poor I often didn't have shoes and wore dollar-store flip flops in the winter. Deadbeat dad, opiate addict mother. I was shuffled constantly from relative to relative, friend's house to friend's house. I had some very supportive teachers, including one who paid for my AP tests and SATs. I got an offer to a university in the UC system. Life was looking up! In the last semeste…

Well, now you can forgive yourself and be proud of what you've accomplished and will continue to.

Internalized fear of abandonment, shame, and undervaluing of self-worth... Takes years of work to undo, even after you've made it.

My story is similar to the parent comment - not as severe, but close.

I'm doing well now, but I suffer deeply from impostor syndrome and am constantly waiting to be fired, or cast out or sent back to the bread line, even though, rationally, I know that these are not likely, or even possible outcomes.

You can't divorce yourself from your own past, no matter how high you climb or far you run to escape it.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#79

Post by sageabilly »

tajen wrote: post #73

I'm in France and I sometimes notice that USA articles focus only on underpriviledged talent . Why only the talents? It's a bit like rape is fought against, except in prisons because they're lower-grade citizen. Or like articles describing unwarranted violence from the SWAT teams: "The family was playing poker, they got busted for illegal gaming, 3 died" will trigger fewer reaction than "The SWAT team killed the dog.…

"everyone needs to be saved"

Unfortunately, the prevailing social zeitgeist in the US is that not everyone deserves to be saved- you have to earn the right to be deemed worthy enough to be saved, and really if you find yourself in a position where you need to be saved then it's probably your own fault and you should bootstrap your way out of it. The puritanical mindset is very, very strong and all-prevailing in the US.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#80

Post by simplemath »

tajen wrote: post #73

I'm in France and I sometimes notice that USA articles focus only on underpriviledged talent . Why only the talents? It's a bit like rape is fought against, except in prisons because they're lower-grade citizen. Or like articles describing unwarranted violence from the SWAT teams: "The family was playing poker, they got busted for illegal gaming, 3 died" will trigger fewer reaction than "The SWAT team killed the dog.…

Empathy is a dying sentiment in this country.

We've made the horrible mistake of conflating "success" with morality; i.e. "the poor are just lazy", or "this wealthy person is automatically a paragon of good judgement"

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