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Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

nytimes.com

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Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#391

Post by wsy »

bduerst wrote: post #349
wsy wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but no reason to let companies collect even more data than they need to perform the transaction. Your argument goes a bit like "every lock can be picked, so why are you opposed to just keeping your door open?"

That's a terrible straw man. My counterargument to the "indeterminate potential for future abuse that makes it important" is that the same logic applies to all human transactions, so it's a moot premise. Increased security standards on metadata for human transactions is actually the right response to the existence of bad actors, but increased security != forcing bans on the use of metadata.

It's not about outright banning, it's about limiting to the minimum amount required to perform the service. Btw. nobody complains about WhatsApp holding metadata about connections between people. We complain about WhatsApp transmitting this data in a quite hidden fashion to Facebook.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#392

Post by codingmyway »

rmc wrote: post #51
codingmyway wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This all comes back to the two-faced saying of one thing loud and publicly while in the small print buried in legalese proclaiming something else. That practice needs to be illegal. It is basically fraud.

One aspect of European data protection is "freely given, informed consent". You can only do what the user has consented to. If a company loudly says "We'll never share it" and the ToS says "We can share it", then what has the user consented to? You could make a case that the user is consenting the loud proclamations. EU data protection law doesn't allow dense legalise behind a click-through as "consent". So maybe EU…

The EU is way ahead in protecting consumers. Thankfully I am an EU citizen (for now, #Brexit) but unless other major economies follow corporations will keep trying.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#393

Post by ffggvv »

aykutcan wrote: post #386
shkr wrote: post #247

Yesterday, I opened whatsapp on my phone. During the last weeks I have been clicking on the `Not Now` option when whatsapp gave me the new terms and conditions. Yesterday, the not now option did not exist. This is not good.

What is not good ? What is the point ?

I think he means that he can't say "no" to the new terms anymore. But you are right. But you're right, if the parent doesn't like whatsapp it should just uninstall it.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#394

Post by ComodoHacker »

yAnonymous wrote: post #111
ComodoHacker wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funniest part will begin when Google start sharing user data with Facebook and vice versa, for mutual benefit. Perhaps only then regular users will start thinking about privacy.

That's never going to happen. The reason they make so much money is because they're the only ones who have that amount of interconnected user data. Sharing it would be the stupidest thing they could possibly do.

I'm not so sure about this. When a market becomes consolidated ans stable enough, big players often decide to divide it and cooperate where possible, rather then compete fiercely. Look at the property, insurance and other stable markets.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#395

Post by omginternets »

cortesoft wrote: post #364
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because for example you could have sent them an Email, SMS or called at some point and are in their phone contacts/contact book. That user then shared their phone contacts with FB. So even though you may not have signed up for FB, they have [your name]{your number} in a table somewhere so that when and if you do sign-up it will be easy to link you with people you already have contacted.

You know, in the old days everyone had a whole book that was basically a table of everyone's name and phone number. It was called the telephone book.

And some people were unlisted.

What's your point?

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#396

Post by omginternets »

newscracker wrote: post #387
zigzigzag wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to break it to you, but when you make a payment online, the recipient learns your legal name, probably a billing address i.e. where you live, and you probably don't even think about it. I do see a lot of double standards in these discussions. People never articulate who is specifically being hurt or what the specific problem is. Instead allusions to fascist governments are made, which would be fine, if these c…

> allusions to fascist governments are made, which would be fine, if these companies were governments. But they aren't: they have no power. It only takes one affected person to know what it's like to be spied on and abused with the information at hand. We don't need an entire country to come to shambles to know what such vast information collection could result in. You also seem to be making assumptions that governme…

>But they aren't: they have no power.

Sorry, what?

Even if that were true, nothing prevents them in principle from serving as the eyes and ears of a fascist regime. Nothing prevents a government, in principle, from compelling them to reveal sensitive information.

At the risk of being conspirational, need I remind you that Facebook was funded by DARPA? Need I remind you that the NSA is installing backdoors in ISPs and other service providers?

Do you really not see the problem being described by the parent comment, or are you just being contrarian?

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#397

Post by bagacrap »

achou wrote: post #251

A former colleague of mine who was a distinguished academic and successful tech executive grew up in East Germany. After the Berlin wall fell, he was able to enter the building where they kept the dossiers. He found his own file and was astounded by the information they had on him. His friends, his work, his habits. Photos of himself going about his business. His social circles. His friends were equally shocked by th…

To my understanding, it's just Germany that's the outlier here, not all of Europe. I could be mistaken.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#398

Post by josefx »

briandear wrote: post #158
retox wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that the German people generally are very wary of data being moved around and collected 'unnecessarily'. I think a ploy like this would only backfire on FB.

And oddly, Germany requires to to declare your religion to the government. So I guess the question would be: what is considered necessary? If Facebook needs data to offer a free service, that seems necessary unless Facebook employees are volunteers and servers run on kitten sneezes and rainbows.

Do you mean on tax forms or the declaration that you are not a member of Scientology?

Afaik you can enter whatever you want on the tax form, it is just used to collect membership fees/church tax on behalf of a church. Mostly part of an old deal between the state and the catholic church.

Scientology on the other hand counts more or less as an enemy of the state, stability and not something you let near children. So you need to fill out a corresponding form for specific jobs. If even half the stories of what they get up to are true that is a good thing.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#399

Post by ionised »

newscracker wrote: post #384
Gruselbauer wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely true for older generations, but among those under, say, forty years of age, the 'I don't have anything to hide' fallacy is alive and well just as anywhere else. I'm German and it's been a huge ordeal to get my closest friends to migrate to Telegram at least. Signal was debated, but the lack of a good desktop client killed it. XMPP and IRC and all, not with these guys. Germany has some vocal proponents of p…

> it's been a huge ordeal to get my closest friends to migrate to Telegram at least. Signal was debated, but the lack of a good desktop client killed it. I realize it's difficult to get people to change messaging platforms, but if you have such a chance again after sometime , I would suggest trying out Wire [1] sometime. I have been recommending it over the last few months for people to try because it has superior UX…

Just installed this. Thanks!

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#400

Post by tdkl »

newscracker wrote: post #384
Gruselbauer wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely true for older generations, but among those under, say, forty years of age, the 'I don't have anything to hide' fallacy is alive and well just as anywhere else. I'm German and it's been a huge ordeal to get my closest friends to migrate to Telegram at least. Signal was debated, but the lack of a good desktop client killed it. XMPP and IRC and all, not with these guys. Germany has some vocal proponents of p…

> it's been a huge ordeal to get my closest friends to migrate to Telegram at least. Signal was debated, but the lack of a good desktop client killed it. I realize it's difficult to get people to change messaging platforms, but if you have such a chance again after sometime , I would suggest trying out Wire [1] sometime. I have been recommending it over the last few months for people to try because it has superior UX…

> Notifications also seem a bit unreliable or not working as expected (that's why the after sometime before).

If you mean mobile notifications on Androids, it's worth noting that you need to whitelist the app in any battery saver modes be it vendor one or Googles Doze. Since Wire doesn't use GCM (websocket instead) for push, Doze might cause the unrealiable notifications.

I've been using it for a month now, whitelisted the app under Sony STAMINA mode and the notifications are instant on mobile & desktop. Also brought family and friends over and they're satisfied with the experience.

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