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Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

nytimes.com

51–60 of 441 posts

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now things are going to get interesting! I completely understand the desire for privacy but I thinkmit's unrealistic to expect that Facebook won't consolidate its data by user across all their applications. Facebook (and Google, etc.) are now in the same business as the credit reporting agencies ... You are their only product. The difference in this particular case is that Whatsapp made an explicit promise that they…

This all comes back to the two-faced saying of one thing loud and publicly while in the small print buried in legalese proclaiming something else. That practice needs to be illegal. It is basically fraud.

One aspect of European data protection is "freely given, informed consent". You can only do what the user has consented to. If a company loudly says "We'll never share it" and the ToS says "We can share it", then what has the user consented to? You could make a case that the user is consenting the loud proclamations. EU data protection law doesn't allow dense legalise behind a click-through as "consent".

So maybe EU law is already doing what you say it should do. :)

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#52
post #16

I would like to see a federal Staute inacted regarding the collection of user data in the US. Enacted quickly! Something on the lines of don't collect any data, besides name, password, email address. This information can never be sold. I have weird feeling, in the near future, we will find that information/data has been abused. No just abused by marketing/big data, etc.. And I'm not even arguing about the obvious--pe…

> Something on the lines of don't collect any data, besides name, password, email address. This information can never be sold. Would you then pay for the services in full that you now could use for free?

You cannot use it for free now. Just because the currency isn't US dollars, doesn't make it free.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#53
post #28
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Something on the lines of don't collect any data, besides name, password, email address. This information can never be sold. Would you then pay for the services in full that you now could use for free?

If a sale person stood on the street and offered people to install tracking software in their phones that will record every move, every call, every text, which the customer is told will be sold at a nice profit to any one thats willing to buy it with no oversight. At the end of one year, non-poor customer that the company earned profits from from will get a one time compensation of $20. How many people will accept th…

They exist, and they do very well. Things like Nielson and others have been doing something similar for many years, as well as countless surveys that can pay you, and both of my parents have installed on seperate occasions a toolbar which pays them pennies per day they keep it enabled, and when asked about it they were fine with it recording everything as long as they get their payout.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#54

There is one funny one: http://www.ndtv.com/blog/why-i-took-whatsapp-to-court-by-a-1...

"please turn off your adblocker" yeah, no thanks. Do you have another link?

Works fine with the anti-adblock filter lists in uBlock Origin (which I can highly recommend)

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#55
post #31
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatsapp gained massive users with their "no commercials ever" claim. They were a small independent company. And people arguably got invested in the network as a result. Now they reverse on that but the public feels locked in. I myself think... just switch to Signal or Telegram, but the amount of WA users is simply massive here in the EU. Everybody uses it.

Sometimes I wonder if the strategy of announcing "due to the anti commercial data privacy demands in Germany we are forced to suspend all German WA accounts for the next couple of days" is ever discussed at Facebook. I'd be interested to see the political pressure it would create. I think the network is strong enough that people won't switch to other apps instantly and there would be a pretty big "just gimme back my…

Extreme non-techies will say "WhatsApp is broken, use this app instead". People who read the news will know it's about the US companies wanting to spy on your data (remember Germans don't have US 4th Amendment rights), and will switch apps.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#56
post #14

“It has to be their decision, whether they want to connect their account with Facebook,” Johannes Caspar, the Hamburg data protection commissioner, said in a statement. “Therefore, Facebook has to ask for their permission in advance. This has not happened.” That's a fair point. I don't use WhatsApp, so did it asked to accept new privacy policy, terms & conditions or smth? Anyway, I'm happy to see that institutions in…

I don't think dense legalise in a click through can count as "consent"

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#57
post #44
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes I wonder if the strategy of announcing "due to the anti commercial data privacy demands in Germany we are forced to suspend all German WA accounts for the next couple of days" is ever discussed at Facebook. I'd be interested to see the political pressure it would create. I think the network is strong enough that people won't switch to other apps instantly and there would be a pretty big "just gimme back my…

My understanding is that the German people generally are very wary of data being moved around and collected 'unnecessarily'. I think a ploy like this would only backfire on FB.

I already see non-technical people switching; it would backfire massively since now the rest will overcome their inertia too.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#58

Facebook asked WhatsApp users to give consent before collecting data, which some did. Why should the government intervine between consenting adults agreeing on a contract willfully? Isn't this the definition of tyranny and why we oppose things such as the war on drugs?

> Why should the government intervine between consenting adults agreeing on a contract willfully? Isn't this the definition of tyranny and why we oppose things such as the war on drugs?

The idea that contracts between adults are sacred is basically a libertarian philosophy. Many countries (incl Germany) often limit what contracts can do.

You can also make a case that people did not "freely consent" to transferring data. A click-through multi-page legalise doesn't count as "consent"

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe yes, maybe not. So what? It should still be forbidden. If it turns out that not enough people want to pay for it, then tough luck for the company, they should design something that people will pay for. For example it is forbidden to take organs from people as payment. We could forbid taking certain private data from masses of people as payment.

If you put trade in organs in the same basket as trade in conclusions from personal data, then I have to wonder what you put in the other basket, the one where consenting adults are allowed to freely enter into agreements. If you are criticising that people are not willingly and knowingly entering into agreements with Facebook or Google, that is another debate. Yes I think there should be the utmost level of transpar…

The reason why government should forbid it is not to protect the individual that's agreeing to give away their data, but to protect society from the externalities of those transactions when they occur en masse. Privacy is a necessity for a democracy, without it, democracy falls apart, that is extremely dangerous, and that's why a democratic society should protect itself against it.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#60

I would like to see a federal Staute inacted regarding the collection of user data in the US. Enacted quickly! Something on the lines of don't collect any data, besides name, password, email address. This information can never be sold. I have weird feeling, in the near future, we will find that information/data has been abused. No just abused by marketing/big data, etc.. And I'm not even arguing about the obvious--pe…

> any data, besides name, password, email address

Collect any data you want if and only if you have the informed consent of the user. This means explaining in detail what you're intending to collect and gaining permission first (opt-in).

> This information can never be sold.

Sell the information if you want (that was collected with informed consent of the user), but collecting data brings a responsibility of care for that data and liability for any problems that happen because those records were stored.

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