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Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

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Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#161

Get a Developer Edition XPS 13 from Dell instead, comes with Linux pre-installed. I have one and they are awesome, if manufacturers support Linux they get my $.

I bought a Lenovo X1 Carbon (most recent gen) and really regret it for a great many reasons. Wish I had gone for the XPS. Actually what swayed me was the very slightly larger screen.

Could you expand a little on what kind of issues you've had with it?

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#162
post #13

Just out of curiosity, what's the rationale for MS & Lenovo to do this, why to risk PR? The number of people wanting to install Linux is marginal and they are already "on the wrong side".

I guess they just wanted to lock out Windows 7/8. They don't gain anything by denying Linux to a few people. But preventing that the buyer can downgrade to Windows 7 fits exactly to their strategy and makes sense for Microsoft.

Also, an agreement to lock out Linux might not be legal from an antitrust perspective, whereas an agreement to restrict usage to the current version of the OS is much less critical.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#164
post #13

Just out of curiosity, what's the rationale for MS & Lenovo to do this, why to risk PR? The number of people wanting to install Linux is marginal and they are already "on the wrong side".

Money, lots of money. Microsoft gives away special deals for OEM versions of Windows that cost manufacturers of devices peanuts in comparison to the ordinary pricing. I've heard figures like $20 per Windows license.

So people have suggested in the past that Microsoft might ask for favours in return, basically telling OEMs that if they do not comply they might loose cheap OEM versions or even all access to OEM version of Windows, which would make their products unfit for competition.

Other people have suggested that this would be illegal, that Microsoft would never do something as anti-competitive like that, and that Microsoft just gives away nicely priced OEM versions of Windows to manufacturers because they are really nice guys and want disseminate their products even if they don't earn much from them.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#165
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still a bit flabbergasted: you really truly believe that disallowing installing Linux on a particular brand/model of laptop is directly comparable to the forced labor and extermination of millions of Jewish people during WW2?

Of course I do not believe it the way you portray it. It is called a 'sliding scale' for a reason, my friend. A 'slippery slope'[0], if you will. Completely different from 'directly comparable'. At the top of the slope, it's "merely firmware, what is the problem?". At the bottom of the slope are warcrimes and genocide. It is very hard to stop sliding down a slippery slope once you've started. So when you disallow Lin…

There's no need for every slippery slope argument to make an allusion to the genocides committed by the Nazis.

Otherwise, "my friend", one invites analogies to Godwin's law, and rejection out of hand for using a reductio ad Hitlerum.

People make slippery slope arguments all the time, but often (and quoting your [0]), "as a form of fear mongering, in which the probable consequences of a given action are exaggerated in an attempt to scare the audience. The fallacious sense of "slippery slope" is often used synonymously with continuum fallacy, in that it ignores the possibility of middle ground and assumes a discrete transition from category A to category B. In a non-fallacious sense, including use as a legal principle, a middle-ground possibility is acknowledged, and reasoning is provided for the likelihood of the predicted outcome."

What was missing, in the recasting of Niemöller's poem, was the 'reasoning ... provided for the likelihood of the predicted outcome'.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#167

Do not attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. I see no conspiracy here, just an OEM that doesn't get it.

You're quoting Hanlon's Razor.. But this could also be Hanlon's Dodge( https://cluelesscreationcorporation.quora.com/When-the-burea... )... I'm not saying it is, but it could be.

Never knew this principle had a name. Will have to try to remember it. Of course for us plebeians, it is oft heard "ignorance is no excuse".

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#168
you all put too much value in some "product expert" guy's words. if you dealt with support before, you know 90% of the time they don't know what they're talking about. I mean, come on, some support guy reveals a SECRET AGREEMENT between Microsoft and Lenovo? Come on.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#169
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something like tradition. The IBM PC has been an "open" system since the late 70's. Tablets etc (palmtops!) started appearing in the 90's, and were walled gardens from the get go.

IBM PC was made open by Compaq in 1981 not late 70's, IBM would rather had it closed as the Commodore, Spectrum, Atari, Amiga, Acorn, Mac were.

Just a nitpick - Spectrum was pretty open (at least if we are talking about 48/128). My father bought us Spectrum specifically because it was more open than alternatives (Atari or Commodore), and he later bought the PC for the same reason (and I would never buy a Mac for the same reason).

Unlike its competitors, Spectrum had standard phone jack connectors for sound and magnetic tape recorder (so you could use any recorder). It also had a direct circuit board connection to the system bus on the back, and the schematics were available. My father built us the 8255 interface to have joystick and other peripherals connected.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#170

I have been a long time ThinkPad user and recently purchased my latest ThinkPad T460p. Sadly it has some issues, the latest NVidia drivers don't work on the device but I'm forced to use the 1 year old driver that Lenovo provides in their packages. Figuring this out took my several days of trouble shooting (only dx9 was affected). Also the system fan is constantly running. I went to their support site and the online s…

Honestly Dell does Ubuntu pre-installed and therefore its XPS and Precision models never give this kind of bullshit uphill, even if you don't buy the Ubuntu version. It's now my go-to vendor, simply because I consider any vendor which does not do full testing on Linux, and sells any hardware that doesn't fully support it, as suspect and not worth bothering with. I'm sad to see that Lenovo is now in that camp.
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