521–530 of 535 posts
I'm going to be so pissed off if a whole generation of students gets their students loans forgiven two decades after I paid mine off.
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I kind of empathize with you since I did the same...but just because I feel angry, does that dictate what's moral overall? Here's an interesting question. Does someone who served in the military, peace corps, Americacorps or whatever have a higher, "moral high ground," for having served the country, for a super-reduced wage, over one who has not? Using your same logic, we should have anyone who did not do that pay a,…
> Using your same logic, we should have anyone who did not do that pay a, "non-participation fee." Err, we do. It's called taxes, which fund the military. More importantly, joining the peace corps is a choice . Nobody compels you to do it. Taxes are not: if student loans are forgiven, I'm being forced to pay for other people's financial decisions. I find that much more objectionable than my voluntary charitable contr…
You may not like being forced into something, I may not like being forced into something, a criminal may not like being put in jail - but there are certain rules on the aggregate which are set up not for the individual, but to benefit society as a whole. There are situations in which the ethics of upholding a society overtake those of an individual (e.g. the prevention of returning to a, "state of nature," argument.)
Beyond that, in our situation, there are multiple extenuating circumstances of for-profit universities who had lobbied the Federal Government to gain special treatment which would grant them the capability to be funded via student loans. Those Universities then went on to employ extremely unethical practices, preying on those who did not have the proper background or capacity to choose. Mind you, this was all done with Federal money, sanctioned by your and my tax dollars, which we have no choice in paying, as you stated. What we do have a choice in, is saying that a certain percentage of student loans should be forgiven due to extenuating circumstances such as unethical for-profit educational institutions, educational institutions such as ITTTI which went out of business, etc. I think the underlying assumption that people are making here on this discussion is falling prey to the, "slippery slope," fallacy in that ALL student debt should be forgiven, when in reality perhaps only a certain percentage should be, due to the high incidence of unethical educational institution degree-awarding growth which occurred subsequent to the 2008 economic collapse.
What you will see on here is a lot of people making appeals to the economic benefits of making a decision which benefits a larger aggregate of the population. If you can't stomach that, then you should at least watch the latest Frontline Documentary on For-Profit Schools, and read the Wikipedia Articles on various for-profit schools which have recently gone out of business, like ITTTI.
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> Using your same logic, we should have anyone who did not do that pay a, "non-participation fee." Err, we do. It's called taxes, which fund the military. More importantly, joining the peace corps is a choice . Nobody compels you to do it. Taxes are not: if student loans are forgiven, I'm being forced to pay for other people's financial decisions. I find that much more objectionable than my voluntary charitable contr…
People in the military pay taxes as well. My argument still stands according to your logic - those who did not participate in the military should pay higher taxes. You may not like being forced into something, I may not like being forced into something, a criminal may not like being put in jail - but there are certain rules on the aggregate which are set up not for the individual, but to benefit society as a whole. T…
Like I said in my original comment, the government shouldn't be in the business of student loans in the first place. If it weren't, a lot of these for-profit schools wouldn't exist (because private lenders would realize that they're bad credit risks).
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>Environmental Studies God forbid.
in the "free market" student loan situation this would be an unsafe bet on the creditor's behalf.
Absent a government, lending is a lose-lose situation. The lender has little recourse to compel the lendee to pay, and the lendee has no protection from the lender.
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Note that this is literal in some cases. Norway, being one of the major neo-socialist successes, is also a major oil exporter in the region. They have holes in the ground shooting money up that help enable social programs.
>neo-socialist This isn't a word and Norway isn't socialist.
Upthread is strong with hyperbole from an American perspective, and that "neo-" is just to distinguish having strong governmental social programs/services/safety nets (often caricatured as "socialism" from both the right and the left) from old-school destructive actual Socialism.
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pray tell how you managed to do that
Not too complicated an equation— one can find a basic room in a share for $1k a month uptown or in Chinatown, plus $110/month for a Metrocard or $10/month for Citibike, plus a reasonable amount of money for food like $300/month (cook a big pot of something a couple days a week, pack lunch from that, and have a few meals out for a $10/day diet). That's about half of $35k for basic expenses while living in Manhattan, w…
I'm going to be so pissed off if a whole generation of students gets their students loans forgiven two decades after I paid mine off.
So, let's see, if you were a black person in 1863 who'd been enslaved but bought your freedom prior to the Emacipation Proclamation, you'd resent the Emancipation Proclamation since from then on other wouldn't have to buy their freedom?
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In a low-inflation, sparse investment landscape it's actually quite likely that people will hoard cash.
Physical cash under the bed? "Hoarding" cash in a bank account isn't really "hoarding" as those deposits are "loaned" into the economy.
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> How would one repossess an education? You can't. > Isn't that the reason student loans are not dischargeable? No. First, student loans are, in fact, dischargeable, though there is a higher bar to discharging them. So expalanations of why they are not dischargeable are unnecessary (and necessarily incorrect.) But, more to the point, unsecured loans in general are dischargeable without the heightened requirements tha…
> First, student loans are, in fact, dischargeable, though there is a higher bar to discharging them. So expalanations of why they are not dischargeable are unnecessary (and necessarily incorrect.) Explanations of why they are more difficult to discharge is certainly necessary, though. I'm also curious how student loans can be discharged except via death of the lendee. It probably happens, but I don't personally know…
I work in the industry, some of the ways you can have your student loans discharged are:
False Certification (Ability to Benefit): For forgiving a borrower's loan based upon a false certification of the borrower's ability to receive benefits to attend college because he/she doesn't have a GED or high school diploma.
False Certification (Disqualifying Status): For forgiving a borrower's loan based on the borrower's disqualifying condition(s) for the degree.
False Certification (Unauthorized Signature/Unauthorized Payment): For forgiving a borrower's loan based upon endorsement or certification of the promissory note, disbursement, or application by an unauthorized person.
School Closure: For forgiving a borrower's loan based upon a school closure that prevents the borrower from completing his/her degree or program.
Unpaid Refund: For forgiving the borrower's loan because the borrower's school did not provide the correct refund to the borrower's lender.
Teacher Loan Forgiveness Forbearance: For borrowers who are eligible for the Teacher Loan Forgiveness program and whose entire outstanding balance will be forgiven at the end of their fifth year of teaching in a qualifying school.
Total and Permanent Disability: For borrowers who are unable to repay their Federal Family Loan Program student loans due to total and permanent disability (as defined by the U.S. Department of Education).
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>>How would one repossess an education? >You can't. Yet. ;)
Isn't that one of the options for the people who paid for ITT? Full refund only if they repossess your credits.
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