Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 535 posts

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#281

Post by whyenot »

zeveb wrote: post #263
morgante wrote: post #176

Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions? I made the choice to go to a slightly less prestigious school so I wouldn't have to go into debt for college. I also worked all through college to pay for my expenses. Should I now be punished for that decision? Why should we make people's financial mistakes consequence-free? I think the government should get out…

> Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions? Not just that: this is, ultimately, a giveaway to the academic classes, who have lucked into the business of selling things to unwise consumers spending someone else's money. When these loans are forgiven (let's not fool ourselves: they will be), the federal government will have moved $1.3 trillion into the cof…

I don't see it. Academia already has this money. It was paid to them as tuition.

If loans are forgiven, the money will be "moved" (so to speak) to the bank accounts of the indebted, not academia.

In the case of state schools, student loans also benefitted the tax payers. Student loans means such schools can charge a higher tuition, which means they need fewer subsidies from the the state.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#282

Post by x2398dh1 »

morgante wrote: post #176

Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions? I made the choice to go to a slightly less prestigious school so I wouldn't have to go into debt for college. I also worked all through college to pay for my expenses. Should I now be punished for that decision? Why should we make people's financial mistakes consequence-free? I think the government should get out…

I kind of empathize with you since I did the same...but just because I feel angry, does that dictate what's moral overall? Here's an interesting question. Does someone who served in the military, peace corps, Americacorps or whatever have a higher, "moral high ground," for having served the country, for a super-reduced wage, over one who has not? Using your same logic, we should have anyone who did not do that pay a, "non-participation fee." We really just all live in a society with lots of winners and losers, different personalities, people who were unlucky because they got cancer, others who are descendants of the Rockerfellers, etc. Individual moral decisions, good or bad, don't automatically take precedence over moral decisions about the aggregate.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#283

Post by duaneb »

falcolas wrote: post #143
leereeves wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I make way more than that, what are you thinking??" Way more than that being $30/hour = $60K per year.

Which is $20k over the US household average. Not arguing that we could consider it low, but providing more context.

IIRC just this week the US Census released a median household income of $56,000k. Even traditionally poor-performing demographics are well above $40,000/year at median.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#284

Post by gregatragenet3 »

branchless wrote: post #250
gregatragenet3 wrote: post #245

Why is shelling out six figures to go to college even a thing? Any of the knowledge obtainable through a college course is available free on the internet. Is it having the accountability of grades and adult supervision? 60k/yr/student seems like a lot of mark up for repackaging knowledge which is free in a format consumable by the average high school grad. This this is a market waiting to get disrupted.

Leaving aside whether degrees add value or not, the perception is that they do and it absolves hiring managers some responsibility. If you work for a big company and you have an ivy league grad and a guy from a conference you met who seems promising do you: a) hire the ivy guy and if he is crap mumble about youth today b) hire the random guy who screws up and everyone blames you ? Both get hired at low wages as start…

Option 3, (which may not be a option at F500 Co) is bring him on as a contractor and if he performs convert him to perm.

A college degree is this decades version of "nobody got fired for buying IBM"

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#285

Post by duaneb »

jazzyk wrote: post #107
karma_vaccum123 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> university is a place where people should go to learn about things that interest them and inspire them in the company of other like-minded people whilst simultaneously growing as an individual As long as we continue to believe this, nothing will change. Universities indoctrinate, lets not be naive. Most schools have little interest in widening the perspectives of students. They are on a mission to unify perspective…

Looking at my daughter's textbook at a top-20 college in the US, I was stunned. She took a (core) class in philosophy/psychology. Very little time was spent on classics (ancient philosophers, Kant, Hegel, Freud, etc.) They were replaced by contemporary researchers (often from the same university), often with a VERY extreme, one-sided, politicized agenda (feminist, etc.). Pretty sad.

Can you think of a core class that would include Aristotle and Freud? It'd be a shitty survey class where people came out half-educated, using phrases like "begs the question" instead of "raises the question", which is ideally part of the problem philosophy core classes should solve. I don't think a survey of modern philosophers is any worse than this. Philosophy half-understood isn't very meaningful.

Also, modern philosophers have a lot to say. I still recommend de Beauvoir and Wittgenstein to anyone who cares to read.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#286

Post by pilom »

crush_xc wrote: post #117
whyenot wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is not worth $100k and there are many other ways to have that experience that do not cost that much You can get an excellent education at a state school for less than $6k per year. The person who gets a degree in music theory, philosophy, or art history may not get a job that ties in to their major, but these people all leave college with skills in critical thinking, writing, the ability to meet deadlines, skill…

what state does that exist in? No state school here in NJ is under 10k a year, and none of them are ranked decently except for maybe Rutgers, Stevens, and NJIT's architecture program.

Colorado you can do two years in community college for less than $6k per year and then two years at a state school for just over $6k per year if you don't count room and board which you'd have to pay anyway.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#287

Post by secabeen »

fzzzy wrote: post #255
gregatragenet3 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I want to pursue an education in driving luxury cars and sailing yachts? Is that a valid subject matter? And if not, what makes it a less valid subject matter than any other degree that costs money but does not have a clear path to recouping the investment? Who decides?

I'd like to sign up for "Driving Luxury Cars and Sailing Yachts 101" please. These are vital life skills I require.

Sure, there's plenty of work to be had in the Super-Yacht Crew industry. Don't expect to be home as much, though: https://www.luxyachts.com/crew

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#288

Post by flubert »

FireBeyond wrote: post #235
flubert wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Location, Location, Location: $124/mo, 840 sq. ft: http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1204-Via-Seville-Cathedral... $93/mo, 1190 sq. ft: http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/617-NW-8th-Ave-UNIT-11-Mil... $70/mo, 832 sq. ft: http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1745-35th-St-NW-Winter-Hav... $72/mo: http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8528-Highland-Ave-Kansas-C... $92/mo, 2302 sq. ft.: http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/122-Chey…

Come on now: "Sold as is-where is-no disclosures available-Seller has had no knowledge of property-no representations made as to a warranty-habitability,marketability.express or implied." I guarantee you that the seller _DOES_ have a knowledge of the property, and that's why it's only $19,500. And in real estate, where flowery language is the name of the game, the above is coded language for: "Bulldoze it and build"…

Well, it is not like everyone can live in half-million dollar mansions like:

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/152-Sagamore-St-San-Franci...

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1055-Gilman-Ave-San-Franci...

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/15320-Swan-Ct-Gulfport-MS-...

...(one of those homes is not like the others).

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#289

Post by morgante »

x2398dh1 wrote: post #282
morgante wrote: post #176

Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions? I made the choice to go to a slightly less prestigious school so I wouldn't have to go into debt for college. I also worked all through college to pay for my expenses. Should I now be punished for that decision? Why should we make people's financial mistakes consequence-free? I think the government should get out…

I kind of empathize with you since I did the same...but just because I feel angry, does that dictate what's moral overall? Here's an interesting question. Does someone who served in the military, peace corps, Americacorps or whatever have a higher, "moral high ground," for having served the country, for a super-reduced wage, over one who has not? Using your same logic, we should have anyone who did not do that pay a,…

> Using your same logic, we should have anyone who did not do that pay a, "non-participation fee."

Err, we do. It's called taxes, which fund the military.

More importantly, joining the peace corps is a choice. Nobody compels you to do it. Taxes are not: if student loans are forgiven, I'm being forced to pay for other people's financial decisions. I find that much more objectionable than my voluntary charitable contributions.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#290

Post by pilom »

refurb wrote: post #219
cmurf wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right and also tuition doesn't mean cost of attendance where there are all kinds of additional fees, books, room and board, etc. Cost of attendance is easily double that of tuition. So it's actually in the vicinity of $25K per year for a state university. State college and community college in particular can be a lot less, and it's possible to even split the difference and do 2 years community and then graduate from…

room and board You're paying for room and board regardless if you go to college or not. Or you can just live with your parents.

In reply to jazzyk, very few community colleges require that and even if you don't include those, most state schools will waive that requirement if you are over a certain age I.e. you went back to school.
Post reply on HN