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Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

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Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#131
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> university is a place where people should go to learn about things that interest them and inspire them in the company of other like-minded people whilst simultaneously growing as an individual As long as we continue to believe this, nothing will change. Universities indoctrinate, lets not be naive. Most schools have little interest in widening the perspectives of students. They are on a mission to unify perspective…

Looking at my daughter's textbook at a top-20 college in the US, I was stunned. She took a (core) class in philosophy/psychology. Very little time was spent on classics (ancient philosophers, Kant, Hegel, Freud, etc.) They were replaced by contemporary researchers (often from the same university), often with a VERY extreme, one-sided, politicized agenda (feminist, etc.). Pretty sad.

It's a shame that a well rounded education doesn't solely consist of studying entirely apolitical, classic European thinkers.

It's almost as if there is more to the world than Central and Mediterranean Europe.

And heaven forbid, students get exposed to radical ideas in their philosophy classes. We can't have any of that, here.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#132
post #97

I'm really torn on this for the same reason I'm torn on what to do with the people in jail for marijuana offenses: On the one hand, yes what's happening is wrong. On the other hand, you CHOSE to go into debt knowing that you would have to repay it after you graduated. Just like people who CHOSE to deal marijuana KNEW it is illegal. Disagreeing with the law doesn't entitle you to break it. Similarly, disagreeing with…

You are correct. Disagreeing with the law obligates you to break it. Or at least it does according to Thoreau, Jefferson, Gandhi, ML King Jr, et al. But the difference between a law and a promissory note is that the legislature didn't get your explicit approval before passing the law. The promissory note has your signature on it, under a promise that you made to pay a certain amount at a certain time in exchange for…

[deleted]

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea of offering loans only for 'vocational' degrees is extremely damaging. It leads to people taking 'Software Engineering' degrees rather than computer science or maths or physics when really these less directed degrees generally allow people to explore what they are really most passionate about. The idea of a university is not a place where one goes to get a piece of paper that certifies one as compete…

- university is a place where people should go to learn about things that interest them and inspire them in the company of other like-minded people whilst simultaneously growing as an individual. Sounds like a fun luxury good. Why should we subsidize such a luxury good and encourage 25-50% of the population to consume it? Should we also subsidize luxury goods enjoyed by other subcultures, e.g. video games, muscle car…

Educatuion is a public good. We all benefit when society is highly educated. The benefits might not be obtained at an individual level. That is, there will be some people whose education does not end up benefitting us all.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#134
post #108

The only recent grads (within 5 years) with student debt in my circles who could afford and have bought a house recently are: 1. Doctor & Finance couple with combined income $400,000+/year 2. Pharmacist & Finance couple with combined income $200,000+/year 3. Science Research & Quant(finance) couple with combined income $300,000+/year Interestingly - all have finance or medical field/science exposure.. The rest are re…

> I dont see who will support real estate prices going forward.

China.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#135
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Business school professors even at Michigan make 200-600k. I know one of them.

How much do European history professors get paid? Better yet, how many professors get hired as non-adjuncts?

Not sure, but I know a full professor in Philosophy at a top public University that makes 70k

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#136
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't good jobs. The average salary for plumbers is around $50-55k or so, right around the median for the US. Ok, but certainly not good. For roofers and mechanics, you're significantly below the median around $35k, basically in poverty especially if you have a family. I don't think encouraging people away from education is the problem when salaries are this low (poverty levels).

Hah, i bet its way higher. Anyone that owns their own business like that is probably fudging their income numbers and writing off as much as they can. I wouldn't be surprised if the income was 2-20x higher for established self employed people.

The owners are a minor percentage of the workers in these fields and therefore what they make is irrelevant.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#137
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>plumbers, electricians, mechanics, roofers, HVAC specialists, etc, are all the ones that are currently in huge demand. ...You might get a different picture of things if you hang out in some of the skill trades reddits: https://www.reddit.com/r/SkilledTradesNetwork/wiki/community... ...fer instance: "Here's what 10$ an hour looks like! Had to put in my 2 weeks." https://www.reddit.com/r/Welding/comments/52byky/heres_…

>>...fer instance: "Here's what 10$ an hour looks like! Had to put in my 2 weeks." And pretty much every reply is "I make way more than that, what are you thinking??" I'd imagine the guy either doesn't know how to show up consistently and on-time, or has such a severe lack of social skills that he can't properly interview for a job. If you can weld like that and can't find a job making more than $10/hr you are doing…

> "I make way more than that, what are you thinking??"

Way more than that being $30/hour = $60K per year.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

35K is def not poverty. I managed to get by in Manhattan on less...

pray tell how you managed to do that

Not too complicated an equation— one can find a basic room in a share for $1k a month uptown or in Chinatown, plus $110/month for a Metrocard or $10/month for Citibike, plus a reasonable amount of money for food like $300/month (cook a big pot of something a couple days a week, pack lunch from that, and have a few meals out for a $10/day diet).

That's about half of $35k for basic expenses while living in Manhattan, which leaves plenty of room for taxes/savings/going out/travel/etc. And there are a lot of great free events in NYC, too.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- university is a place where people should go to learn about things that interest them and inspire them in the company of other like-minded people whilst simultaneously growing as an individual. Sounds like a fun luxury good. Why should we subsidize such a luxury good and encourage 25-50% of the population to consume it? Should we also subsidize luxury goods enjoyed by other subcultures, e.g. video games, muscle car…

Educatuion is a public good. We all benefit when society is highly educated. The benefits might not be obtained at an individual level. That is, there will be some people whose education does not end up benefitting us all.

If you want to claim education has positive externalities, then make that case. But that's a little hard to square with BenElgar's idea that subsidizing some degrees more than others is "damaging". His comment argued nothing about externalities.

After all, if it turns out that the public external benefits of a physics degree exceed those of a women's studies degree, then the former should be subsidized but not the latter.

In any case, what do you believe the external benefits of education are?

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#140

If this happens, do I get benefits on the debt I've already paid off? I would be pretty pissed if I didn't. I worked my ass off to pay my loans.

I used to feel the same way, but just because our generation got fucked, there's no reason to take it out on the next one.
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