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Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

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Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#171

Post by brianbreslin »

pwthornton wrote: post #164
icehawk219 wrote: post #10

Part of the problem is that the last few generations have been told the same thing: blue collar jobs aren't "good" jobs. You need to go to college so you can get a "good" job sitting at a desk because those other jobs are below you. If you take one of those blue collar jobs then you've failed and aren't "achieving your potential". The grand irony in all of this is that the people who did go on to become plumbers, ele…

Blue collar employment has been falling in this country, replaced by either knowledge work -- which usually requires further education -- or service industry jobs. If there were truly huge demand for many of these professions, pay would be skyrocketing, encouraging more and more people to go into these professions. I agree that there are and will continue to be good skilled trade jobs and many people would be better…

I've seen welders making $160k/year in Texas (oil), BUT the caveat is that its 1 welder whereas 20 years ago that 1 guy had 3 coworkers.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#172

Post by Salgat »

NikolaeVarius wrote: post #3

If this happens, do I get benefits on the debt I've already paid off? I would be pretty pissed if I didn't. I worked my ass off to pay my loans.

I always loved this quote,

“The only time you look in your neighbor's bowl is to make sure that they have enough. You don't look in your neighbor's bowl to see if you have as much as them.”

I'm almost done paying off my student loans, and because of that, I don't want anyone else to have to endure paying for student loans, even if I myself don't get the benefit.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#173

Post by Salgat »

dragthor wrote: post #5
NikolaeVarius wrote: post #3

If this happens, do I get benefits on the debt I've already paid off? I would be pretty pissed if I didn't. I worked my ass off to pay my loans.

My wife and I worked and sacrificed to pay our student loans off. Struggle builds character, appreciation, and gratitude.

Same here! However, there is a line to draw on how much debt to put on someone. I know people who have tuition payments cutting into their living wages, affecting their ability to have even the basic necessities. There is nothing good about this unnecessary suffering, having to worry if you will still be able to afford a meal or a roof over your head.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#174

Post by massysett »

atombath wrote: post #95
jrs235 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And will the forgiveness be tax free or will the IRS come after students for income taxes?

I assume if forgiveness ever occurred, it would need to be respected as income for the debtor(so then IRS gets involved) simply to prevent fraud. Much in the same way that charge-offs are currently taxable income(1099-C). There's simply no way that you will want to forgive the student debt... so pay them off if you can! The punishments of 'forgiveness' simply have to outweigh the benefits or the system will be gamed…

You can pay back $100 or pay 40% tax on $100 of forgiveness, which is $40. The choice is clear here. The only wrinkle is that the $40 might be due all at once. But if that's a concern, saving up ahead of time to pay back the $40 is still better than paying off the $100.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#175

Post by rayiner »

leereeves wrote: post #137
tw04 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>...fer instance: "Here's what 10$ an hour looks like! Had to put in my 2 weeks." And pretty much every reply is "I make way more than that, what are you thinking??" I'd imagine the guy either doesn't know how to show up consistently and on-time, or has such a severe lack of social skills that he can't properly interview for a job. If you can weld like that and can't find a job making more than $10/hr you are doing…

> "I make way more than that, what are you thinking??" Way more than that being $30/hour = $60K per year.

Which is the same as the peak career earnings for someone with a liberal arts bachelors degree that doesn't pursue graduate education.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#176

Post by morgante »

Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions?

I made the choice to go to a slightly less prestigious school so I wouldn't have to go into debt for college. I also worked all through college to pay for my expenses.

Should I now be punished for that decision? Why should we make people's financial mistakes consequence-free?

I think the government should get out of the student loan industry entirely: stop subsidizing them and making interest rates a political issue. Let the market signal which degrees are valuable and which aren't. But also make them dischargeable in bankruptcy. At least then there would be a consequence for people deciding to take out expensive loans for education.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#177

Post by FT_intern »

vkou wrote: post #131
jazzyk wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at my daughter's textbook at a top-20 college in the US, I was stunned. She took a (core) class in philosophy/psychology. Very little time was spent on classics (ancient philosophers, Kant, Hegel, Freud, etc.) They were replaced by contemporary researchers (often from the same university), often with a VERY extreme, one-sided, politicized agenda (feminist, etc.). Pretty sad.

It's a shame that a well rounded education doesn't solely consist of studying entirely apolitical, classic European thinkers. It's almost as if there is more to the world than Central and Mediterranean Europe. And heaven forbid, students get exposed to radical ideas in their philosophy classes. We can't have any of that, here.

The author's criticism was about replacement of old ideas, not addition of new ideas

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#178

Post by [deleted] »

vkou wrote: post #131
jazzyk wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at my daughter's textbook at a top-20 college in the US, I was stunned. She took a (core) class in philosophy/psychology. Very little time was spent on classics (ancient philosophers, Kant, Hegel, Freud, etc.) They were replaced by contemporary researchers (often from the same university), often with a VERY extreme, one-sided, politicized agenda (feminist, etc.). Pretty sad.

It's a shame that a well rounded education doesn't solely consist of studying entirely apolitical, classic European thinkers. It's almost as if there is more to the world than Central and Mediterranean Europe. And heaven forbid, students get exposed to radical ideas in their philosophy classes. We can't have any of that, here.

[deleted]

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#179

Post by jrs235 »

massysett wrote: post #174
atombath wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume if forgiveness ever occurred, it would need to be respected as income for the debtor(so then IRS gets involved) simply to prevent fraud. Much in the same way that charge-offs are currently taxable income(1099-C). There's simply no way that you will want to forgive the student debt... so pay them off if you can! The punishments of 'forgiveness' simply have to outweigh the benefits or the system will be gamed…

You can pay back $100 or pay 40% tax on $100 of forgiveness, which is $40. The choice is clear here. The only wrinkle is that the $40 might be due all at once. But if that's a concern, saving up ahead of time to pay back the $40 is still better than paying off the $100.

I believe there was a short exemption window for income taxes on some mortgage defaults/forgiveness that Congress explicitly allowed. Otherwise debt forgiveness usually gets taxed as income and the amount would be due the tax year it is forgiven. The IRS does allow payment plans and I'm not certain how they would handle such a case as this. I would hope they don't tack on fees and interest but I could certainly seeing them do that. Granted your wages can be garnished to pay for student loans, I don't know who/what entity is chasing that money. Is it the IRS? With huge amounts of taxes due from a forgiveness, the IRS will be on your tail and now you have to choose, what's worse: owing more student loan debt or owing back taxes to the IRS (which if unpaid can lead to criminal proceedings)?

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#180

Post by toomuchtodo »

morgante wrote: post #176

Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions? I made the choice to go to a slightly less prestigious school so I wouldn't have to go into debt for college. I also worked all through college to pay for my expenses. Should I now be punished for that decision? Why should we make people's financial mistakes consequence-free? I think the government should get out…

TL;DR The health of the economy is more important than your moral high ground.

Same reason we let people walk away from homes (or not walk away, simply not be able to afford them), but we'll still give them a mortgage 3 years after their foreclosure; the economy needs the monetary velocity to survive.

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