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Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

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Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#91

Post by clifanatic »

n72 wrote: post #73
NikolaeVarius wrote: post #3

If this happens, do I get benefits on the debt I've already paid off? I would be pretty pissed if I didn't. I worked my ass off to pay my loans.

I absolutely understand the sentiment, but if there is legislation to forgive student loans it will not have actually hurt you. In other words, such anger at the forgiveness of student loans really just comes down to envy - namely that other people received a benefit you didn't.

> that other people received a benefit you didn't

Actually, probably not. That's part of it, but if student loan debts are forgiven, the banks aren't going to eat all of that cost - the government is going to step in and help recoup some of that cost. So not only did I have to pay for my own college education, I'll be taxed to help pay for thousands of others, as well.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#92

Post by dv_dt »

maxerickson wrote: post #77
dv_dt wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They may not seem that large, but I suspect that compounding interest effects and the fact that the debt is there very early in peoples lifetimes make them very heavily weighted in terms of the effects on lives and economies.

The interest compounding on a $30,000-40,000 loan wouldn't really be a student loan issue, it would be a job issue. The interest on the loan sizes I've mentioned is typically going to be less than $4000 a year, so if they pay $6000 a year the loan will go away quite quickly. That's a substantial amount of after tax income for a lot of jobs, but students should be looking at the debt in those sort of terms, that it is…

Not the interest of the student loan, the 'interest' of the opportunity cost of paying $4000-$6000 year instead of some other use (eg personal or retirement savings, or saving for a house). There is a huge forward cost in their financial quality of life because of these early debt payments.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#93

Post by zaccus »

ceejayoz wrote: post #72
jostmey wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the problem. You add bankruptcy back in and the student loan problem will disappear. Banks will start assessing each person's ability to pay back loans before giving them a lifetime burden of debt. Fix bankruptcy laws, fix the student loan problem.

> Banks will start assessing each person's ability to pay back loans before giving them a lifetime burden of debt. 17-18 year olds often aren't going to have much of a credit score, so you're basically winding up excluding folks from low-income areas/backgrounds from a college education. Are you going to ban students from changing their major after a few weeks?

Why are you asking these things like they're hypothetical? The way we did student loans prior to 2005 worked just fine. Low income students weren't excluded back then were they? Just roll it back to that.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#94

Post by k-mcgrady »

jinfiesto wrote: post #86
k-mcgrady wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see your point. Let's take music for example seeing as you majored in it and I am also quite invested in it. I can't think of too many music jobs that require a degree. It tends to be an industry where you work hard, from the bottom and learn as you go or you teach yourself. There are legitimate reasons to study it as a degree but are you really getting $60-100k of value from it? Some people might but even a lo…

Continuing the example, I'd say that at the non top-tier level it's pretty important to have a degree if you want to make more than 60k a year. It's really hard to justify charging more than 20$ an hour to parents of prospective students if you don't have some sort of degree. I'm assuming that most music majors will go on to teach. Granted, this isn't the only thing you need to be successful, but it's a pretty import…

Interesting points. I agree that having a degree is going to help you be able to charge a higher rate if you are teaching. I disagree with a few points though:

> Consider all of the potentially lost art/literature/music?

I don't think that would happen. Music degree != creativity. You could argue that the people not creating teach others who do create but I think the majority of people who go on to create great art are going to do that whether they get a degree or not.

> The community is not particularly open about sharing information

Maybe it's because we're talking about music in such abstract terms but this is certainly not my experience. I've been working towards a career in mixing for the last few years and there is an abundance of great teachers and communities online for a small monthly fee. Everybody is incredibly supportive, helpful, and even share work when certain people have more than they can handle. From another angle I've always found musicians more than helpful teaching each other new things (e.g. I see someone playing with a technique I don't know and ask them to show me how it's done).

> At any rate, I feel like either college should just be subsidized by the state

I agree with you here. I live in the UK and the most anyone pays for tuition is £9k per year. I actually looked into going to the US for college and the costs were incredible. However a lot of that is because students choose to go out of state and go to well known schools. Maybe that's where the change needs to happen. Big subsidies for studying in state.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#95

Post by atombath »

jrs235 wrote: post #65
atombath wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that feeling... I'm nearing the end of my loans and dropped $3k on one of them yesterday. I would have rather had a vacation if it's just going to vanish! ...but don't get salty because the debt won't vanish. I have no doubt that if an education loan is forgiven, it WILL affect that persons credit rating. Much like when a debt is forgiven/charged-off. Also, charge-offs are typically treated as a form of…

And will the forgiveness be tax free or will the IRS come after students for income taxes?

I assume if forgiveness ever occurred, it would need to be respected as income for the debtor(so then IRS gets involved) simply to prevent fraud. Much in the same way that charge-offs are currently taxable income(1099-C).

There's simply no way that you will want to forgive the student debt... so pay them off if you can! The punishments of 'forgiveness' simply have to outweigh the benefits or the system will be gamed until broken.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#96

Post by ceejayoz »

zaccus wrote: post #93
ceejayoz wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Banks will start assessing each person's ability to pay back loans before giving them a lifetime burden of debt. 17-18 year olds often aren't going to have much of a credit score, so you're basically winding up excluding folks from low-income areas/backgrounds from a college education. Are you going to ban students from changing their major after a few weeks?

Why are you asking these things like they're hypothetical? The way we did student loans prior to 2005 worked just fine. Low income students weren't excluded back then were they? Just roll it back to that.

Student loans prior to 2005 were still backed by the government in the case of default. Little incentive for banks to worry about it.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#97

Post by gxs »

I'm really torn on this for the same reason I'm torn on what to do with the people in jail for marijuana offenses:

On the one hand, yes what's happening is wrong. On the other hand, you CHOSE to go into debt knowing that you would have to repay it after you graduated. Just like people who CHOSE to deal marijuana KNEW it is illegal.

Disagreeing with the law doesn't entitle you to break it. Similarly, disagreeing with your loan terms doesn't entitle you to not pay them.

I CHOSE to go to a cheap state school to avoid this fiasco. Now others who didn't choose prudently get "relief"?

At one point do we just say, hey, you made shitty choices, sorry. Where is that line? I'm not saying we shouldn't do something, just offering up a different point of view.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#98

Post by vkou »

up_and_up wrote: post #68
Ar-Curunir wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol in which world do professors get paid 400k? Even at Berkeley CS mis career pay is roughly 150k. Administrators have ballooned. Also our dorms are pretty shit.

Business school professors even at Michigan make 200-600k. I know one of them.

How much do European history professors get paid?

Better yet, how many professors get hired as non-adjuncts?

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#99

Post by vkou »

clifanatic wrote: post #55

I'm going to be so pissed off if a whole generation of students gets their students loans forgiven two decades after I paid mine off.

If it makes you feel any better, they will be the generation that will get to pick up the tab for climate change caused by yours (And the one before it.)

Not to mention that college was a lot more affordable two decades ago...

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#100

Post by joesmo »

icehawk219 wrote: post #10

Part of the problem is that the last few generations have been told the same thing: blue collar jobs aren't "good" jobs. You need to go to college so you can get a "good" job sitting at a desk because those other jobs are below you. If you take one of those blue collar jobs then you've failed and aren't "achieving your potential". The grand irony in all of this is that the people who did go on to become plumbers, ele…

They aren't good jobs. The average salary for plumbers is around $50-55k or so, right around the median for the US. Ok, but certainly not good. For roofers and mechanics, you're significantly below the median around $35k, basically in poverty especially if you have a family. I don't think encouraging people away from education is the problem when salaries are this low (poverty levels).
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