Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

To tell someone they're wrong, first tell them how they're right

qz.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 307 posts

Re: To tell someone they're wrong, first tell them how they're right

#41

Post by Retra »

jobu wrote: post #22
rayiner wrote: post #16

Learning how to do this is an essential skill. Most people are not idiots. If they disagree with you, it's probably not because they are being irrational, but because they're starting from a different premise, making different assumptions, or assigning different values to different aspects of the problem. Only when you understand their argument well enough to articulate it in your own words can you effectively presen…

Usually I try to resolve disagreements by asking questions. Either they end up poking holes in their own arguments or I learn where I made a mistake. Telling someone they're wrong is useless. After that they can only think of reasons why they're correct.

I've learned plenty (and changed my mind many times) from having people simply tell me that I'm wrong.

Re: To tell someone they're wrong, first tell them how they're right

#44

Post by wamatt »

M_Grey wrote: post #32

It's the complete opposite of what seems to be the increasingly reigning trend online at least, and all too often offline. That is to say this is good advice, but a really shocking number of people seem to unaware that the least effective teacher is the one who informs you that you're a pointless moron before trying to correct you. I'm constantly amazed at people who think their genius is so valuable that anyone woul…

> I'm constantly amazed at people who think their genius is so valuable that anyone would put up with their rancid personality.

Devils advocate here; Isn't this an example of displaying a superior attitude and the sort of the thing you're claiming to be against?

Re: To tell someone they're wrong, first tell them how they're right

#46

Post by piyush_soni »

geowwy wrote: post #38
rayiner wrote: post #16

Learning how to do this is an essential skill. Most people are not idiots. If they disagree with you, it's probably not because they are being irrational, but because they're starting from a different premise, making different assumptions, or assigning different values to different aspects of the problem. Only when you understand their argument well enough to articulate it in your own words can you effectively presen…

>> If they disagree with you, it's probably not because they are being irrational... It's interesting to compare this POV with the Scott Adams'. In his school of thought all people are mostly irrational, even if they think otherwise: http://blog.dilbert.com/post/147595892021/how-persuaders-see...

I think the whole reason "first tell them how they are right, then how they are wrong" works is that most people are irrational.

Re: To tell someone they're wrong, first tell them how they're right

#47

Post by wamatt »

rayiner wrote: post #16

Learning how to do this is an essential skill. Most people are not idiots. If they disagree with you, it's probably not because they are being irrational, but because they're starting from a different premise, making different assumptions, or assigning different values to different aspects of the problem. Only when you understand their argument well enough to articulate it in your own words can you effectively presen…

Also very rarely do beliefs exist in isolation. They're usually a part of a framework or ideology. Seeing that greater context, I would imagine, helps to empathize with the other party's POV.

Re: To tell someone they're wrong, first tell them how they're right

#48

Post by arkj »

Unless the person has serious emotional issues this kind of approach only makes conversations too tedious and artificial.

A simpler approach could be, accept the fact that you are wrong (may do great good) or learn to ignore the bully (some bullies get a thrill to tell everyone they are wrong)

Re: To tell someone they're wrong, first tell them how they're right

#49

Post by M_Grey »

wamatt wrote: post #44
M_Grey wrote: post #32

It's the complete opposite of what seems to be the increasingly reigning trend online at least, and all too often offline. That is to say this is good advice, but a really shocking number of people seem to unaware that the least effective teacher is the one who informs you that you're a pointless moron before trying to correct you. I'm constantly amazed at people who think their genius is so valuable that anyone woul…

> I'm constantly amazed at people who think their genius is so valuable that anyone would put up with their rancid personality. Devils advocate here; Isn't this an example of displaying a superior attitude and the sort of the thing you're claiming to be against?

Only if you think that I believe I'm dropping pearls of wisdom here, rather than just sharing an opinion, and doing so in a "rancid" way. Do you think that?

Re: To tell someone they're wrong, first tell them how they're right

#50

Post by M_Grey »

popmystack wrote: post #39
M_Grey wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but we're all just human, and most of the time it's not truth that comes with rudeness, it's just more rudeness and a lot of opinions. Worse, people seem to think that being rude is a way to broadcast your important or genius, when it really does nothing of the sort. I'm also not talking about "expecting respect", I'm talking about people who cross basic lines of conduct. "I don't feel I'm being treated as w…

I definitely see what you're saying. I guess all I can really say is it's such a gray area for me personally, given the people I've worked with. There are people who demand respect for absolutely no reason, and then there are generally arrogant, toxic people like you're describing. It's an emotional minefield!

Agreed. In a way, I see both of those people as sides of the same coin, but probably at different stages in their career. Does that make any sense?
Post reply on HN