31–40 of 307 posts
I had this failure to make a family member see a particular point of view. The person had taken a stance, that would be harmful to the family, but yet rational arguments did not work out. The person had something to gain, I don't know what, by causing this harm, the person went ahead with that. Have you ever encountered this? If yes, does rational argument and persuation work with people who don't care?
It can get even worse when there is no genius in play, just power or money and a good social/professional bubble.
Learning how to do this is an essential skill. Most people are not idiots. If they disagree with you, it's probably not because they are being irrational, but because they're starting from a different premise, making different assumptions, or assigning different values to different aspects of the problem. Only when you understand their argument well enough to articulate it in your own words can you effectively presen…
Is that actually true? The entire literature on cultural cognition, and the myside bias, and all the other failures of rationality seems to point to it being pretty common for people to disagree irrationally. The advice given here is rather one-sided: one must assume the other person disagrees rationally. That's a huge assumption that is sometimes, maybe often, not justified, yet it's not mentioned. Furthermore, the…
The new information could be about being less wrong (updating the rules of their causality) or it could be a new situation on which to apply their existing ways of thinking.
It's the complete opposite of what seems to be the increasingly reigning trend online at least, and all too often offline. That is to say this is good advice, but a really shocking number of people seem to unaware that the least effective teacher is the one who informs you that you're a pointless moron before trying to correct you. I'm constantly amazed at people who think their genius is so valuable that anyone woul…
My opinion has been that if you really value truth, leave your ego at the door. Emotional intelligence is key to discovering things you don't know, from sources that may be less than friendly.
I am not advocating being needlessly toxic. This goes for both parties. But people would do well to learn when to A) Not expect respect B) Know how deal with someone who is disrespectful, but is correct in the current subject matter being discussed.
It's the complete opposite of what seems to be the increasingly reigning trend online at least, and all too often offline. That is to say this is good advice, but a really shocking number of people seem to unaware that the least effective teacher is the one who informs you that you're a pointless moron before trying to correct you. I'm constantly amazed at people who think their genius is so valuable that anyone woul…
>I'm constantly amazed at people who think their genius is so valuable that anyone would put up with their rancid personality. My opinion has been that if you really value truth, leave your ego at the door. Emotional intelligence is key to discovering things you don't know, from sources that may be less than friendly. I am not advocating being needlessly toxic. This goes for both parties. But people would do well to…
I'm also not talking about "expecting respect", I'm talking about people who cross basic lines of conduct. "I don't feel I'm being treated as well as I should," is not in this, and yes, people who expect that need to ground themselves in reality a bit.
Learning how to do this is an essential skill. Most people are not idiots. If they disagree with you, it's probably not because they are being irrational, but because they're starting from a different premise, making different assumptions, or assigning different values to different aspects of the problem. Only when you understand their argument well enough to articulate it in your own words can you effectively presen…
Someone could also disagree with me because they are correct and I am in error. They may have knowledge or perspective that I lack. My first step is to try and find something they know that I don't before crafting persuasive arguments. Maximize for total knowledge not winning arguments.
I had this failure to make a family member see a particular point of view. The person had taken a stance, that would be harmful to the family, but yet rational arguments did not work out. The person had something to gain, I don't know what, by causing this harm, the person went ahead with that. Have you ever encountered this? If yes, does rational argument and persuation work with people who don't care?
So the answer is no, rational argument doesn't always work. Sometimes the best that you can do is simply minimize harm to a relationship by not letting the argument escalate or letting anyone burn any bridges. Depending on context, sometimes it might even be worth yielding to a seemingly-irrational argument if it means preserving a valuable relationship (this should be done with caution, obviously). And sometimes things really are just irreconcilable (though hopefully not too often).
Learning how to do this is an essential skill. Most people are not idiots. If they disagree with you, it's probably not because they are being irrational, but because they're starting from a different premise, making different assumptions, or assigning different values to different aspects of the problem. Only when you understand their argument well enough to articulate it in your own words can you effectively presen…
It's interesting to compare this POV with the Scott Adams'. In his school of thought all people are mostly irrational, even if they think otherwise: http://blog.dilbert.com/post/147595892021/how-persuaders-see...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
>I'm constantly amazed at people who think their genius is so valuable that anyone would put up with their rancid personality. My opinion has been that if you really value truth, leave your ego at the door. Emotional intelligence is key to discovering things you don't know, from sources that may be less than friendly. I am not advocating being needlessly toxic. This goes for both parties. But people would do well to…
I agree, but we're all just human, and most of the time it's not truth that comes with rudeness, it's just more rudeness and a lot of opinions. Worse, people seem to think that being rude is a way to broadcast your important or genius, when it really does nothing of the sort. I'm also not talking about "expecting respect", I'm talking about people who cross basic lines of conduct. "I don't feel I'm being treated as w…
Daniel Dennett is a curious character. A philosopher at Tufts, he wrote this: How to compose a successful critical commentary: You should attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly, and fairly that your target says, “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it that way. You should list any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement). You should mentio…