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Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

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Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#331

Post by jshevek »

rhaps0dy wrote: post #222
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this could be misinterpreted as a setup for a date. I'd think that if some dude asked me and we hadn't had much small talk at the office. At the same time, it isn't horrible advice. It really all depends on the situation and your current 'comfort level' with the person. I mean, if you've been working together some time and have chatted at the office, might not be an issue. It might help to mention that you wa…

Does it work to outright say "It's not a date, I just want to talk to you"? Or does it have the opposite effect and make the askee more wary that the asker may, in fact, take it as a date?

In today's climate, I would err on the side of caution. Being naively honest and straightforward can very easily be the worst possible approach, if you are unlucky.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#332

Post by generic_user »

kaybe wrote: post #299
1_2__3 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd be even nicer if people stopped being so judgemental that they no longer judge people's unrevealed thoughts and instead base their opinion on actions. Because telling people they have a secret and unknown racist/misogynist hiding inside them guiding them covertly is probably never gonna convince anybody to change their mind.

Current research shows this is not something you can just change your mind about because you want to, sadly. But I agree, being confrontational will not fix things. At the same time, it being subconscious makes it not a single person's fault. One can and should do better than that, but if sub-ideal situations happen (within reason), it does not mean the person is bad. So actions can be judged with this in mind for no…

Woman who have a deep internalized Misandry usually don't realize that they have a problem. Research show there is probably nothing you can consciously do about your irrational fear had hatred of Men. But its definitely problematic and needs to be corrected.

You can not have a conversation with circular logic like this.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#333

Post by Mz »

rhaps0dy wrote: post #222
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this could be misinterpreted as a setup for a date. I'd think that if some dude asked me and we hadn't had much small talk at the office. At the same time, it isn't horrible advice. It really all depends on the situation and your current 'comfort level' with the person. I mean, if you've been working together some time and have chatted at the office, might not be an issue. It might help to mention that you wa…

Does it work to outright say "It's not a date, I just want to talk to you"? Or does it have the opposite effect and make the askee more wary that the asker may, in fact, take it as a date?

I will suggest that saying it is not a date is problematic. It is more effective to signal this is specifically work related in some other manner, like saying you want to discuss X project over coffee. Affirm it is work related. Don't reference dating at all.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#334

Post by dang »

grillvogel wrote: post #296

lol at all the mansplaining goobers in here. "i'm incapable of empathizing with these issues therefore they aren't real, just b urself "

Please don't. Adding uncivil/unsubstantive comments to a difficult subject just makes things worse for everyone.

Fortunately this thread attracted a wealth of substantive original contributions in addition to some of the usual predictable stuff. I've enjoyed reading many of the comments, which is... not exactly typical for such subject matter.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#335

Post by wnoise »

wpietri wrote: post #327
rndgermandude wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's often a shitty environment for men, too. Now the question is: Is it really that much more shitty for women, are there other factors at play for them leaving (or not joining in the first place), or a combination of both. I'd say the latter: The environment is a bit shittier on average for a women and therefore should be improve to be equally shitty for all, but there are other factors at play here too.

Sure, life is terrible. Sure, the patriarchal system we are embedded in is bad for everybody. But again, if you want to know what actual women actually experience, the right way to approach that isn't boldly stating your own answer. Try asking.

Unfortunately very few people have the experiences of both men and women in tech, which is what is necessary to get a comparison from someone who actually knows how much shittier it is as one vs another.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#337

Post by stale2002 »

PavlovsCat wrote: post #315
stale2002 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most women engineers seem to disagree with you. The experience of women engineers is vastly different than those of male engineers.

Nah, they don't seem to, and it's not. Isn't intellectual debate fun? Also, what do they disagree on - that an Iraqi bombed to death is worse off than even a poor albino woman in the US? That starving to death in Africa as a male is worse than being a female engineer wherever ? Technically, you just called "most female engineers" very ignorant and selfish.

Maybe you should talk to some women engineers sometime and get their opinion.

Because I have spoken to a lot of them, and read about many of their experiences. And the vast majority of them say the same thing. That they have to deal with serious problems that their male counterparts do not.

And just because other people have things worse, doesn't mean that other important problems don't exist.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#338

Post by jshevek »

rcba wrote: post #6

How active should men be in actually helping to solve the gender diversity problem vs sitting on the sidelines and sharing the work of women who are solving the problem? I've been working on an initiative to encourage more of my male peers to do more to make their organisations more diverse and was recently criticised by a female software engineer who told me that I shouldn't "come into a feminist space" where "women…

> told me that I shouldn't "come into a feminist space" where "women are already organising, telling stories and advocating for themselves".

At this point, I think you have to ask yourself if these people really have good values, appropriate goals, healthy approaches to reaching those goals.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#339

Post by paulddraper »

hobs wrote: post #185
whamlastxmas wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a lot of respect for the concepts discussed here, but as a side note "check with your HR team" is a pretty bad idea in most cases. As it's often said, HR is there to protect the company. Not to help employees. Approaching HR with the question "Is it ok to talk to women?" is going to make that HR employee make a note in your file that you're potentially causing a harassing environment and there's documentation…

Seconded, I have never worked at a company where talking to the HR team was a good idea for any reason. If you are thinking about it you should probably seek a lawyer because they are not your friend.

Taking to HR is like talking to the cops. It's only a good thing when you have the grievance.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#340

Post by andrepd »

grace_engineer wrote: post #89
exolymph wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this. It's weird to single out women and it's equally weird to not include women. The whole point of these discussions and elaborate rigmaroles is to treat people the same regardless of gender.

Hello, I am Grace. Please include women in the workplace. Talk to us. Don't omit us. If you aren't sure if it's HR appropriate to talk to women at your workplace please check with your HR team. I hope your HR team will encourage you to talk to women and ask what they like or dislike about their day-to-day. If they mention concerns or problems they’re having, I hope your HR team will encourage you to ask if there’s an…

>If you aren't sure if it's HR appropriate to talk to women at your workplace

I'm not sure what you mean by this. What's the meaning of "HR appropriate"?

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