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Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

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Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#161

Post by gens »

tomc1985 wrote: post #160
gens wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually "explain" that to people by writing something like: There are all kinds of idiots. There are male idiots. There are female idiots. There are chinese idiots. There are black idiots. There are slovenian idiots. There are afganistany idiots. There are tall idiots. There are short idiots. There are american idiots. There are white idiots. There are ginger idiots. And so on till i run out of ideas. All prejudice…

It makes me wonder if all this nonsense is a conspiracy to continue discriminatory practices ("preserving the boys club") rather than correct them. Lots of people trying way too hard makes me suspicious.

I go by "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity".

I'm sure some are in it for personal gain (maybe even on bout sides), and that some are in it for actual social benefit (India comes to mind). But in general, no. It's just the usual chatter about social themes.

edit: Just to note, i find this here thread OK (but wish there were more actual engineering questions).

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#162

Post by kaitai »

redDictionary wrote: post #22

I would like to ask a female engineer some things. 1) do you think there are more men in engineering exclusively as a result of men being prejudiced against women? 2) do you think your male co-workers are less qualified to be engineers because they were hired for their gender? 3) one of the engineers in this article said she felt uncomfortable being aware of being the only female. Can anyone explain what causes the d…

Have to answer as a mathematician, but

1) No, women think I am batshit insane too. Most people in America are prejudiced against mathematicians, worrying that liking mathematics says things about our mental stability and sexual desirability. But some men get to be boy geniuses and there's no corresponding stereotype for women that I can find.

2) In academic math I do often see that. There are mediocre guys who persist (you're at MIT with only two ok papers?) when good women are pushed out (with 4 good papers and that MIT degree, pushed to teach, hates teaching, leaves for industry).

3) If all the guys pointedly ignore me, like in that 7th grade math class, I have to eat lunch alone and don't talk to anyone all day and that is sad. If all the guys in turn ask me out, like freshman year of college, I get tired of all the emotions. If all the guys ask me what math I'm learning when I'm 3 years out of the PhD, it's a bit weird but I'll tell 'em. If everyone looks toward me when it's time to take notes or do education and outreach or get the point of view of "the woman", that's just plain annoying. My handwriting is crap, I'm not always a caring or approachable person, and I certainly don't agree with all women about anything (compare this answer to the other answer in the thread). The older I get the less I care but that's because I'm grumpy and married. (Men do treat me differently when they know I'm married.)

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#163

Post by stale2002 »

FT_intern wrote: post #102

Diversity initiatives for the tech world baffle me. The tech world is already very diverse, along lines that transcend race and gender. I am talking about national diversity. Engineering teams are composed of a huge percentage of foreign born workers who carry truly diverse experiences. The difference in experience between nationalities completely trumps the differences in experience between gender and race within th…

Most women engineers seem to disagree with you.

The experience of women engineers is vastly different than those of male engineers.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#164

Post by fasfdkjlk »

kaitai wrote: post #137
fasdf wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This did happen to me once. I asked someone to a general get-to-know-you coffee and she spent the next two years mentioning her boyfriend to me and even mentioning a couple of times that she liked me as a friend but didn't want to date me. I thought it best not to mention that my interest in dating her was equally low.

I think it's totally ok to say, "Sorry if it didn't come across that way, but I'm really just interested in talking professionally." Many women have had previous bad experiences and react with that in mind. It's ok to clarify.

I am fasdf. Basically, I had already been so misunderstood, I thought the best approach was to say no more on the matter. Given how seriously she misunderstood one comment, who's to say how she could misinterpret another? (thinking that I was implying she was unattractive, etc.) She would say, as a group of us headed to an event, etc., "XXXX, we're just going to this as friends, I'm not interested in dating you, you know that, right?" (she would literally say things like this). I'd just nod and say "mmhmm" because anything else felt risky.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#165

Post by kaitai »

NTDF9 wrote: post #96
hnbroseph wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the point of "ask a female engineer" or "ask a male nurse" is that these are "minority groups" in those respective contexts and have distinct life experiences and insights as a result. > So if one can have "Ask a female athlete", why not "Ask a male athlete". you seem stuck on the "can have" bit, which isn't really the point.

>> you seem stuck on the "can have" bit, which isn't really the point. Ok, so you wouldn't oppose if a man goes and creates a group called, "Ask a brogrammer?" brogrammer = funny slang for male programmers, not meant to offend anyone but to bring male humor to other males

You should do it and I hope it would be hilarious.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#166

Post by klara_engineer »

ue_ wrote: post #146
rcba wrote: post #6

How active should men be in actually helping to solve the gender diversity problem vs sitting on the sidelines and sharing the work of women who are solving the problem? I've been working on an initiative to encourage more of my male peers to do more to make their organisations more diverse and was recently criticised by a female software engineer who told me that I shouldn't "come into a feminist space" where "women…

I really do not mean to be confrontational, as I understand that this is a charged topic on all sides, but I'd like to ask why making tech more diverse (in terms of race or gender) is preferable. My first instinct would be to say that if it's more diverse, women or racial minorities are more likely to come into tech because they might feel more comfortable there. But then we're back at square one: why do we want them…

A) I see the tech industry shaping the future for the world. The world is comprised of a diverse group of people. How can a narrow group of people understand the needs of everyone?

B) There are a shortage of labor in tech

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#167

Post by hnbroseph »

crapolasplatter wrote: post #126
hnbroseph wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i can't downvote but: > I really don't see the importance of sex in relations to engineering that expression is too vague to really say anything about. there exist "minority groups" in various fields (such as "male nurses"), and said groups sometimes have distinct life experiences and insights as a result, including their relationship with the "majority group". > Or perhaps explain why the following characteristics a…

"that expression is too vague to really say anything about" The same goes for "Ask a Female Engineer" hence I wanted more information about other non engineering characteristics such as her height,weight, color, height, etc. "this seems non-sequitur or a strawman" Its not a strawman it was a valid question , why did she only decide to single out her sex. Why not disclose her weight,height,color,etc?

> The same goes for "Ask a Female Engineer"

non-sequitur. it's a q&a with a particular segment of individuals. if you're not interested in the experiences and insights of a segment of the workforce, you don't have to ask anything.

however, asking about "the importance of sex in relations to engineering" requires explanation of what you mean by "importance" and "engineering". otherwise it's a bit of a weaselly question.

> Its not a strawman

you said: "explain why the following characteristics are irrelevant". nobody said they were.

> why did she only decide to single out her sex

did you not even look at the link? even the first paragraph? there isn't a "she" who "decided to single out her sex". it's a content publisher/blog (?) that took questions and then posited them to a group of female engineers.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#168

Post by EliRivers »

user5994461 wrote: post #97

The solution to all gender problems: Actively ignore all topics and articles with "woman" or "female" in the title. People are who they are and go where they want. Tech is no exception. When one walks into a car garage, one doesn't make a fuss about mechanics being all men. When one walks into a kindergarden, one doesn't make a fuss about teachers being all women.

"The solution to all gender problems: Actively ignore all topics and articles with "woman" or "female" in the title."

How does that solve any gender problems? I don't see how me not reading certain topics solves gender problems.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#169

Post by mathattack »

houselouse wrote: post #19

> Invite women you work with for coffee No chance of this being misinterpreted. Invite women you work with for coffee and ask what they like or dislike about their day-to-day. If they mention concerns or problems they’re having, ask if there’s any way you could help make it better.

This is a touchy point. If a male boss only has coffee with male colleagues, the lack of mentoring is legally discrimination. (I'm not a lawyer, but this is how it was explained to me.)

If you ask once, and get rebuffed, at least you've done your part to not exclude.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#170

Post by vacri »

NTDF9 wrote: post #14

Not trying to be sarcastic but how would the world respond if someone starts, "Ask a male engineer"?

If it were a genuine attempt to maturely discuss gender issues in the workplace from a male point of view, the world would probably be okay with it.

If it were a knee-jerk "what about the menz?" fuck-you, then it'd be shouted down.

There are lots of books and magazines out there that maturely examine men's experiences from a man's point of view, and no-one is shrilly protesting them.

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