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Fedora 25 to Run Wayland by Default

phoronix.com

21–30 of 31 posts

Re: Fedora 25 to Run Wayland by Default

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by remoting? Are you talking about X11 forwarding in which case it's highly unlikely due to it not being X11.

I have access to many computers but only one of them is literally plugged into my monitor. Can I use Wayland over a network?

One could use Windows and OS X machines that way since forever, without them offering "Remote X11" sessions, so yes...

Re: Fedora 25 to Run Wayland by Default

#22

Does this mean remoting is available? I can't find anything recent and definitive, but the FAQ still says no. I've never understood how Wayland can even be considered usable without it. "The user owns exactly one computer" hasn't been true for a decade or more.

I used to think the same way regarding Wayland. But then I realized the abysmal state of X11 remoting: most applications I would like to use remotely are basically sending images over the network, instead of just API calls. Try using Firefox over X11 forwarding. I think some battles have been lost in this regard.

The creators of Wayland decided that it is not their task to handle remoting. You could argue that this demphasizes the issue, leaving it to insufficient VNC, dead projects like NX, or not yet production ready projects like X2Go (once they support Wayland that is).

Re: Fedora 25 to Run Wayland by Default

#23
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have access to many computers but only one of them is literally plugged into my monitor. Can I use Wayland over a network?

One could use Windows and OS X machines that way since forever, without them offering "Remote X11" sessions, so yes...

Um, that may be true on paper, but instead of using bandwidth heavy VNC or braindead systems that require you to log off locally before you can login remotely, X11 offers you a responsive and flexible solution.

Re: Fedora 25 to Run Wayland by Default

#24
post #3

I just got a 4k laptop, but my monitor is 1080p, so I'm excited about Wayland getting better faster (it's the only good way I know of to have different scaling across displays). I'm still finding all sorts of weird quirks in Linux with 4k...but, I'm also still finding quirks in lots of Windows software, too (games and music software, in particular, are prone to using their own UI toolkits and end up looking ridiculou…

This is one thing that Mac seems to have gotten perfect nowadays, I connect my retina laptop to non-retina monitors, and every seems to work fine, all the time. Apple made one massive simplification -- apps only run at 1x size, or 2x size, and nothing else. This isn't theoretically "nice", but (for me) covers most use cases, and seems to have made the implementation much easier, as you can still design your interface…

It seems like that would be an easy solution; but, for probably good reasons (though reasons I don't know), Windows and Linux don't do it that way.

Gnome applications of recent vintage behave correctly, pretty much across the board. Firefox has some of its own configuration (for content, but the Gnome settings get applied to the UI), but behaves OK once configured. It's all the non-Gnome stuff that gets weird. Mostly games and music and graphics apps that don't use the system toolkit. Unfortunately, those are just the apps I most want to be able to cram a gazillion pixels onto the screen.

I'm tinkering with audio again, on both Linux and Windows, and VSTs, in particular, are awful. Unusably small, in many cases (VSTs are, IMHO, already the ugliest UIs in the world). At least most of my actual software works OK; FL Studio go an update recently that make it's UI vector-based, I guess, as it is fully scalable across any size screen, and looks really good at any size.

For reference on the ugliness of VST plugins (many of these are laughably expensive, like in the multiple hundreds of dollars for usually very simple DSP algorithms wrapped up in a ridiculous GUI):

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=vst%20plugins

Now, just imagine them shrunk down to the size of a postage stamp...it's kinda like the thumbnails on image search, actually, on my 15" laptop display.

Re: Fedora 25 to Run Wayland by Default

#25

Does this mean remoting is available? I can't find anything recent and definitive, but the FAQ still says no. I've never understood how Wayland can even be considered usable without it. "The user owns exactly one computer" hasn't been true for a decade or more.

If you need that feature, X11 is probably for you. Not supporting a feature is a difficult, albiet important, choice. If it's not remoting, it's 100 other features that would turn Wayland into X11. Omission differentiates as much as innovation.

Re: Fedora 25 to Run Wayland by Default

#26

Does this mean remoting is available? I can't find anything recent and definitive, but the FAQ still says no. I've never understood how Wayland can even be considered usable without it. "The user owns exactly one computer" hasn't been true for a decade or more.

I used to think the same way regarding Wayland. But then I realized the abysmal state of X11 remoting: most applications I would like to use remotely are basically sending images over the network, instead of just API calls. Try using Firefox over X11 forwarding. I think some battles have been lost in this regard. The creators of Wayland decided that it is not their task to handle remoting. You could argue that this d…

[deleted]

Re: Fedora 25 to Run Wayland by Default

#28

Does this mean remoting is available? I can't find anything recent and definitive, but the FAQ still says no. I've never understood how Wayland can even be considered usable without it. "The user owns exactly one computer" hasn't been true for a decade or more.

I used to think the same way regarding Wayland. But then I realized the abysmal state of X11 remoting: most applications I would like to use remotely are basically sending images over the network, instead of just API calls. Try using Firefox over X11 forwarding. I think some battles have been lost in this regard. The creators of Wayland decided that it is not their task to handle remoting. You could argue that this d…

Guacamole? https://guacamole.incubator.apache.org/

Re: Fedora 25 to Run Wayland by Default

#29

Does this mean remoting is available? I can't find anything recent and definitive, but the FAQ still says no. I've never understood how Wayland can even be considered usable without it. "The user owns exactly one computer" hasn't been true for a decade or more.

I used to think the same way regarding Wayland. But then I realized the abysmal state of X11 remoting: most applications I would like to use remotely are basically sending images over the network, instead of just API calls. Try using Firefox over X11 forwarding. I think some battles have been lost in this regard. The creators of Wayland decided that it is not their task to handle remoting. You could argue that this d…

> The creators of Wayland decided that it is not their task to handle remoting.

That seems to be their decision but I can't imagine what's motivating them. How is the non-remote use case even relevant at this point? Is Wayland intended for console gaming?

Re: Fedora 25 to Run Wayland by Default

#30
post #13

Misleading title. The decision here is to leave Wayland on but it can still get pulled later if it is deemed to not work well enough.

This is correct and the comment should not have been downvoted. (The article is wrong.) This is essentially just about allowing Wayland to remain the default during alpha, but it can very well be removed as default later on.
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