Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Fedora 25 to Run Wayland by Default

phoronix.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 31 posts

Re: Fedora 25 to Run Wayland by Default

#11

Post by sunnyps »

vertex-four wrote: post #10
srslack wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Needs to be implemented in each compositor, like most other missing details on Wayland.

Actually... Wayland fully supports transparent windows assuming you have a buffer with alpha transparency, and windows have no decoration by default. It would take a very small protocol extension to allow overlay windows which don't accept input of their own, allowing for Redshift (and other tinting tools, such as those for dyslexia) to implement such an extension without embedding it into a compositor. Wayland has a…

Redshift (or flux) doesn't work that way. It adjusts the monitor's color temperature using XRandR.

Re: Fedora 25 to Run Wayland by Default

#12

Post by vertex-four »

sunnyps wrote: post #11
vertex-four wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually... Wayland fully supports transparent windows assuming you have a buffer with alpha transparency, and windows have no decoration by default. It would take a very small protocol extension to allow overlay windows which don't accept input of their own, allowing for Redshift (and other tinting tools, such as those for dyslexia) to implement such an extension without embedding it into a compositor. Wayland has a…

Redshift (or flux) doesn't work that way. It adjusts the monitor's color temperature using XRandR.

Alright, though my latter point stands - standardising an extension for setting colour temperature would not be terribly difficult. You could look to libcoopgamma for ideas on managing multiple clients trying to change things at once, or write a simpler protocol that only allows one client to change things. At the very least, an unstable protocol definition and a patch for Weston would be a lot more than what we have now, and doesn't require Redshift to be cloned for each Wayland server.

Re: Fedora 25 to Run Wayland by Default

#14

Post by anonova »

jakehilborn wrote: post #7
CJefferson wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one thing that Mac seems to have gotten perfect nowadays, I connect my retina laptop to non-retina monitors, and every seems to work fine, all the time. Apple made one massive simplification -- apps only run at 1x size, or 2x size, and nothing else. This isn't theoretically "nice", but (for me) covers most use cases, and seems to have made the implementation much easier, as you can still design your interface…

OSX's scaling system is actually more flexible than just 1x and 2x. I often run my 4K monitor at the effective 1440p resolution. Applications such as Retina Display Manager let you choose between many more scaling sizes than the standard system settings.

OS X can only scale by powers of 2. If your monitor runs at native 4K (3840x2160), scaling ~1.28x renders to 6016x3384 and scales down by 2x to 3008x1692. Your example is at 1.5x (2560x1440), which renders to 5120x2880 and scales down by 2x to 2650x1440. The most efficient scale is 2x (1920x1080) because that can be rendered natively. So while you can have arbitrary effective resolutions, it's rather wasteful to render and can have serious performance implications when you're not using native or powers of 2.

Re: Fedora 25 to Run Wayland by Default

#15

Post by prodigal_erik »

Does this mean remoting is available? I can't find anything recent and definitive, but the FAQ still says no. I've never understood how Wayland can even be considered usable without it. "The user owns exactly one computer" hasn't been true for a decade or more.

Re: Fedora 25 to Run Wayland by Default

#16

Post by hactually »

prodigal_erik wrote: post #15

Does this mean remoting is available? I can't find anything recent and definitive, but the FAQ still says no. I've never understood how Wayland can even be considered usable without it. "The user owns exactly one computer" hasn't been true for a decade or more.

What do you mean by remoting? Are you talking about X11 forwarding in which case it's highly unlikely due to it not being X11.

Re: Fedora 25 to Run Wayland by Default

#17

Post by prodigal_erik »

hactually wrote: post #16
prodigal_erik wrote: post #15

Does this mean remoting is available? I can't find anything recent and definitive, but the FAQ still says no. I've never understood how Wayland can even be considered usable without it. "The user owns exactly one computer" hasn't been true for a decade or more.

What do you mean by remoting? Are you talking about X11 forwarding in which case it's highly unlikely due to it not being X11.

I have access to many computers but only one of them is literally plugged into my monitor. Can I use Wayland over a network?

Re: Fedora 25 to Run Wayland by Default

#18

Post by [deleted] »

hactually wrote: post #16
prodigal_erik wrote: post #15

Does this mean remoting is available? I can't find anything recent and definitive, but the FAQ still says no. I've never understood how Wayland can even be considered usable without it. "The user owns exactly one computer" hasn't been true for a decade or more.

What do you mean by remoting? Are you talking about X11 forwarding in which case it's highly unlikely due to it not being X11.

[deleted]

Re: Fedora 25 to Run Wayland by Default

#19

Post by Jasper_ »

prodigal_erik wrote: post #15

Does this mean remoting is available? I can't find anything recent and definitive, but the FAQ still says no. I've never understood how Wayland can even be considered usable without it. "The user owns exactly one computer" hasn't been true for a decade or more.

Wayland is a protocol for efficient buffer sharing and windowing semantics. It can be seen as the equivalent to CreateWindow and friends on Windows -- we use binary protocols instead of C APIs, but the idea is the same.

What Wayland is not is a protocol designed for remote transport over TCP. Neither was X11, mind you. There are other, better, protocols like this, like RDP, VNC, and SPICE. These protocols use techniques from video compression and instead of shared memory.

You can use VNC and RDP with Wayland.

Re: Fedora 25 to Run Wayland by Default

#20

Post by lokedhs »

Jasper_ wrote: post #19
prodigal_erik wrote: post #15

Does this mean remoting is available? I can't find anything recent and definitive, but the FAQ still says no. I've never understood how Wayland can even be considered usable without it. "The user owns exactly one computer" hasn't been true for a decade or more.

Wayland is a protocol for efficient buffer sharing and windowing semantics. It can be seen as the equivalent to CreateWindow and friends on Windows -- we use binary protocols instead of C APIs, but the idea is the same. What Wayland is not is a protocol designed for remote transport over TCP. Neither was X11, mind you. There are other, better, protocols like this, like RDP, VNC, and SPICE. These protocols use techniq…

What do you mean when you say "neither was X11"? X11 most definitely is designed to be network transparent. After all, that was the whole concept behind X-terminals.

Also, VNC is nothing like the network transparency of X11. In X, I am able to run a single application on one machine, connecting to an X server running on a different machine. The application will be a first-class citizen in the user environment. This is in contrast to the VNC case where it lives in a separate desktop that is forwarded as a whole to be displayed in a window on the receiver side.

Post reply on HN