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The Hacker's Manifesto (1986)

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Re: The Hacker's Manifesto (1986)

#91

Post by throwanem »

jff wrote: post #87
throwanem wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I did it, to my embarrassment You're not the only one. I give esr a lot of credit for having written the Jargon File at all, because I would not be what I am today had I not encountered it in childhood. But I also give him a lot of blame for writing it in a way that, however satisfactory it must be to his many and multifarious personal prejudices, militates directly against its value in the role he purports to inte…

He didn't create it, he just more or less appointed himself maintainer after 1990-ish.

I think it's reasonable to argue that he's revised it so thoroughly away from its original form that he can be considered to have written it. Perhaps it would help to distinguish the Jargon File and TNHD, although the former has for a very long time merely been the latter without the cartoons.

Re: The Hacker's Manifesto (1986)

#92

Post by chadgeidel »

throwanem wrote: post #76
sevensor wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people have adopted "grok" without understanding its subversive connotations. The shade of Robert Heinlein is laughing at us all. Edit: just checked the Jargon File on "grok," and it mentions neither sexual congress nor ritual cannibalism. I think ESR may be chuckling as well.

> The shade of Robert Heinlein is laughing at us all. Hardly a new state of affairs. I mean, he invented the Rapture of the Nerds back in the fifties!

Wow, really? I haven't read enough Heinlein - what was that in? I always thought Rapture of the Nerds was grounded in Vinge's "The Coming Technological Singularity" (https://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/faculty/vinge/misc/singularity.ht...)

Re: The Hacker's Manifesto (1986)

#93

Post by bobbyi_settv »

emidln wrote: post #68
jff wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, the Jargon File is a fun look back at historical hacker lifestyles, but it's also a microcosm of a very few schools in the 60s and 70s. Teenagers have a bad habit of reading the Jargon File and thinking that's how they MUST behave to be a hacker--I did it, to my embarrassment, and a trip to Defcon or most any freshman CS course will find others doing the same. You don't have to start saying "grok" to b…

> adopt the idiotic "-p convention" which doesn't even really exist in Lisp any more. Do you have a better way of signaling to the reader that a function is a predicate? I don't write a ton of Common Lisp, but I do still see quite of a bit of foop when I read Common Lisp. Possible that most of the code I'm reading was written when this was still a thing though... I think the only reason this doesn't exist in Clojure…

In languages without '?', it's common to prefix the predicate function's name with "is", for example is_empty or isEmpty.

Re: The Hacker's Manifesto (1986)

#94

Post by eggy »

objectiveariel wrote: post #6

To me, this manifesto has little more than historical value. It's more an expression of generic adolescent angst rather than of hacker culture. It's a poor "manifesto" too. What exactly are the aims of The Hacker? "Exploring", "Outsmarting you", and "judging people by what they say and think, not what they look like". Platitudes, really, if you set aside the emotional outbursts surrounding them. The Jargon File offer…

I will not argue the angst angle or semantics of manifesto, but given the context of who and when they wrote it, it was and can still carry some weight. But just as your comment betrays your age (I think?), so does mine. I remember going to 2600 meetings in the lower plaza of the Citigroup building once a month.

At that time, someone told me Feds come and photograph to record attendees (all 5 or 8 people if a good turnout). I was new, and laughed it off, until I say two guys taking snapshots (no digital cameras then!) our way. We would wave at them.

Good memories of HOPE 1994 too. Funny to see the back of my head in some of the videos of it posted to YouTube. They were put up only these past 3 years or so.

I also remember the weight of the situation hit me at the least expected during Phiberfest at Irving Plaza, NYC in 1995, celebrating Phiber Optik's (Mark Abene) release from prison.

I don't think taking chances with your time, and someone else's money (VC) is the same as putting yourself out there the way it was in late 70s, early 80s as a hacker.

I think modern 'Hacker' culture as popularly used now, is more 'three-piece', and that anything that may be actually legal, but more on the darker side is actually attacked by modern 'Hacker' culture.

Whether you agree with Anonymous, whose manifesto borrows some from The Hacker's Manifesto, it is more in line with the meaning of the word 'Hacker' to me, and less ameliorated like over-cooked, over-watered oatmeal of the word's usage today by self-described hackers.

Re: The Hacker's Manifesto (1986)

#95

Post by int_19h »

justinhensley wrote: post #40
api wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a great bit of campy cinema. It's like Wet Hot American Summer with ravers and 90s cyberculture. It's a lot better today than it was when it was made. Instead of lame it feels charmingly funny and nostalgic.

I completely agree. I actually thought it was extremely cool even when it was released, but I was 12. While a wholly inaccurate portrayal of hacking or even computing, it did contribute to my fascination with both.

For all the factual inaccuracies in this movie - which was like 99% of it - I think they have done an amazing job relaying the spirit of the manifesto - the general notion that hacking, as a culture, is really about challenging yourself and satisfying your curiosity.

Re: The Hacker's Manifesto (1986)

#100

Post by kaybe »

laumars wrote: post #59
loydb wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pleased, because I think I'm the answer to the trivia question "What was the first email address to ever appear in a major movie credit roll". Sad, because, damn, is that a bad movie.

I quite enjoyed Hacker, albeit to laugh at. But I've seen far worse "Hacker" themed movies. Though it party helps that Hackers has aged pretty well compared to many of the others. Going back to your point about being angst: if it's any consolation, that's how I felt as a teenager as well. I didn't come across your manifesto until quite some years after it was written but it definitely resonates with how I felt at the…

Well, for what it's worth, there's this comment on IT stuff in movies:

"We write those scenes to be inaccurate and ridiculous on purpose.

I'm a young writer in his mid-30's, computer and game savvy. Lots of us are. I guess you could call it a competition of one-upping other shows to see who can get the best/worst "zoomhance" sequence on the air. Sometimes the exec producers and directors are in on it, and other times we just try to get bits and lines into scripts.

90% of our TV viewing audience will never know the difference and honestly, we love it when threads like this get started and love reading the youtube comments. "

https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/f2i7t/ive_written_f...

The comments on that thread link to a lot of ridiculous moments of IT movie/TV history.

(My google-fu is strong today.)

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