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The Hacker's Manifesto (1986)

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41–50 of 155 posts

Re: The Hacker's Manifesto (1986)

#41

Excellent advice. ESR's ideology is vile, he tries to inject it into everything, and he has no shame. He regularly judges and bullies people on the color of their skin, gender, nationality and religion, and he's certainly not qualified as a "hacker". https://twitter.com/iaincollins/status/719687723590762496 ‏@iaincollins Iain Collins Retweeted $30,000 Logout CSRF TIL ESR is a racist white supremacist and his neo-paga…

You cite a bunch of people echochambering how much of a big, bad racist ESR is and call him names. The two direct quotes from him make policy points about drama from employees belonging to a group known for same and about anti-racism being used as a motivation for handwaving what he claims is a valid demographic observation.

Even if you don't agree with his (nutzo!) politics you should refrain from repeating sloppy arguments against him.

EDIT: Also, the dogwhistle thing is bullshit. ESR basically never attempts to, in my observation, hide what he's saying. I see where 'thug' has been used by others as slang, but with a lot of people, especially of intellectual background, it is closer to its original term of derision towards anti-intellectuals and folks who would use violence to suppress opposing viewpoints.

Re: The Hacker's Manifesto (1986)

#42

Excellent advice. ESR's ideology is vile, he tries to inject it into everything, and he has no shame. He regularly judges and bullies people on the color of their skin, gender, nationality and religion, and he's certainly not qualified as a "hacker". https://twitter.com/iaincollins/status/719687723590762496 ‏@iaincollins Iain Collins Retweeted $30,000 Logout CSRF TIL ESR is a racist white supremacist and his neo-paga…

Yep. He said Mozilla didn't deserve to exist because they removed Eich as head after that debacle. And yeah, he's an awful person. But he does, to some extent, deserve the title "Hacker," because he genuinely is a talented programmer. We don't have to stoop to his level, and discrininate based on ideology: even if we hate him, we can admit he's got talent.

> Yep. He said Mozilla didn't deserve to exist because they removed Eich as head after that debacle. And yeah, he's an awful person.

I don't get how a person can get labeled "awful" or "scum" because he doesn't agree with you.

Personally I'm fine with Mozilla existing, but I do consider the Eich debacle to be one of the bigger examples of SJWism going way too far.

Re: The Hacker's Manifesto (1986)

#43

To me, this manifesto has little more than historical value. It's more an expression of generic adolescent angst rather than of hacker culture. It's a poor "manifesto" too. What exactly are the aims of The Hacker? "Exploring", "Outsmarting you", and "judging people by what they say and think, not what they look like". Platitudes, really, if you set aside the emotional outbursts surrounding them. The Jargon File offer…

In my opinion, the Jargon File is a fun look back at historical hacker lifestyles, but it's also a microcosm of a very few schools in the 60s and 70s. Teenagers have a bad habit of reading the Jargon File and thinking that's how they MUST behave to be a hacker--I did it, to my embarrassment, and a trip to Defcon or most any freshman CS course will find others doing the same.

You don't have to start saying "grok" to be a hacker, or adopt the idiotic "-p convention" which doesn't even really exist in Lisp any more.

Both the Hacker Manifesto and to a lesser extent the Jargon File also tend to perpetrate an "us vs. them" ("freaks vs. squares", "hackers vs. normies") mindset that's pretty outdated these days. You know the only people who give a shit about categories like "geeks and jocks" any more? The ones who are so tied up in their manufactured geek identity that they don't realize the jocks are also learning Python after football practice these days.

Re: The Hacker's Manifesto (1986)

#44

Excellent advice. ESR's ideology is vile, he tries to inject it into everything, and he has no shame. He regularly judges and bullies people on the color of their skin, gender, nationality and religion, and he's certainly not qualified as a "hacker". https://twitter.com/iaincollins/status/719687723590762496 ‏@iaincollins Iain Collins Retweeted $30,000 Logout CSRF TIL ESR is a racist white supremacist and his neo-paga…

Yep. He said Mozilla didn't deserve to exist because they removed Eich as head after that debacle. And yeah, he's an awful person. But he does, to some extent, deserve the title "Hacker," because he genuinely is a talented programmer. We don't have to stoop to his level, and discrininate based on ideology: even if we hate him, we can admit he's got talent.

His software work is unremarkable (fetchmail is trivial and buggy, and CML2 was rejected by the Linux kernel developers), and he's made his career not by writing software but by attacking real hackers like Richard Stallman and trying to bring down their work, not by actually constructively developing any useful software himself. Attacking real hackers and trying to discourage people from using "free software" isn't "hacking".

When I knew him during the 80's, he would go on and on ad nauseum about his beloved "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle NetNews Reader" and how so much better than every other netnews reader. But he never collaborated with anyone, and he never released it under any license. Much more Bizarre than Cathedral.

Re: The Hacker's Manifesto (1986)

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. He said Mozilla didn't deserve to exist because they removed Eich as head after that debacle. And yeah, he's an awful person. But he does, to some extent, deserve the title "Hacker," because he genuinely is a talented programmer. We don't have to stoop to his level, and discrininate based on ideology: even if we hate him, we can admit he's got talent.

> Yep. He said Mozilla didn't deserve to exist because they removed Eich as head after that debacle. And yeah, he's an awful person. I don't get how a person can get labeled "awful" or "scum" because he doesn't agree with you. Personally I'm fine with Mozilla existing, but I do consider the Eich debacle to be one of the bigger examples of SJWism going way too far.

It's not simply because he doesn't agree with you, it's because of his long and vile track record of racism, bigotry, misogyny, and attacking people by twisting facts and outright lying, and of course trying to make a career out of destroying Richard Stallman and his work.

I've known him for decades, since the 80's, and while it's true he totally went off the deep end after 9/11, he has always been a vile awful person.

And remember: Eich wasn't "removed", he CHOSE to resign of his own free will -- Mozilla even begged him to stay and offered him a well paid important position! But ESR's revisionist history never mentions that.

Re: The Hacker's Manifesto (1986)

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the point you are making here? Not saying that you're wrong, but these links are unintelligible to me.

ESR claims that everyone is an SJW, he says that blacks have a lower IQ than whites, and he defended an article called "blacks are lazy," saying that it was accurate. In short, he's a piece of scum. And that's the truth.

actually the screenshot you linked shows that he didn't say blacks have lower IQ than whites. He said haiti has an average IQ or 70, and its not because they are black.

Re: The Hacker's Manifesto (1986)

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. He said Mozilla didn't deserve to exist because they removed Eich as head after that debacle. And yeah, he's an awful person. But he does, to some extent, deserve the title "Hacker," because he genuinely is a talented programmer. We don't have to stoop to his level, and discrininate based on ideology: even if we hate him, we can admit he's got talent.

His software work is unremarkable (fetchmail is trivial and buggy, and CML2 was rejected by the Linux kernel developers), and he's made his career not by writing software but by attacking real hackers like Richard Stallman and trying to bring down their work, not by actually constructively developing any useful software himself. Attacking real hackers and trying to discourage people from using "free software" isn't "…

> When I knew him during the 80's, he would go on and on ad nauseum about his beloved "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle NetNews Reader" and how so much better than every other netnews reader. But he never collaborated with anyone, and he never released it under any license. Much more Bizarre than Cathedral.

The world is full of such things, and was much more so back in the 90s and early 2000s. People brag about how great their tool is, but refuse to share it. I've never been sure if they're exaggerating the features, or if they're insecure about criticism on their magnum opus, or if they just have such a weird and idiosyncratic evolved setup that they cannot effectively package the software for others to use.

Edit: I mean, it's not like ESR had qualms about releasing fetchmail, which has always been a buggy pain in the ass and far less impressive than he makes it sound.

Re: The Hacker's Manifesto (1986)

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ESR claims that everyone is an SJW, he says that blacks have a lower IQ than whites, and he defended an article called "blacks are lazy," saying that it was accurate. In short, he's a piece of scum. And that's the truth.

actually the screenshot you linked shows that he didn't say blacks have lower IQ than whites. He said haiti has an average IQ or 70, and its not because they are black.

That is just the tip of the iceberg, one of his MANY racist posts from his blog. I won't link to it, but go read the whole thing, including the comments sections, if you really want to know what he and his followers are really like.

His favorite technique is to play this game of Libertarian Chicken, where he says something that's totally racist on its face, just to bait people, and then attempts to argue that he's actually operating at a higher level and much more clever than everyone else, and is really right, but just misunderstood, because everyone else is an idiot.

Russ Nelson made a ham-fisted attempt to emulate Raymond's standard technique in his "Blacks are Lazy" posting, but it cost him his job as President of the Open Source Initiative.

But ESR threw down the gauntlet and made a full throated public defense of Russ's "Blacks are Lazy" premise, by attacking the people who wanted him removed as "fools" and "thugs" (dog whistle for the n-word).

Raymond actually wanted OSI to get into a public knock-down drag-out fight with the "social justice warriors" who wanted Nelson to resign, at whatever cost in cash, credibility, alienating minorities, and endangering the mission of the OSI. Not exactly a shining example of leadership.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Russ_Nelson#Blacks_are_la...

Note that although Russell withdrew the article, and admitted it was badly written, Eric S. Raymond is on the record as having defended it by accusing people asking Russell to step down as being "fools and thugs". Note that "thug" has been called a "dog whistle" term for "n*gger".

https://web.archive.org/web/20140126142113/http://aattp.org/...

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-Source/New-OSI-Presi...

Eric S. Raymond wrote: “The people who knew Russ as a Quaker, a pacifist and a gentleman, and no racist, but nevertheless pressured OSI to do the responsible thing and fire him in order to avoid political damage should be equally ashamed,” Raymond said. “Abetting somebody elses witch hunt is no less disgusting than starting your own.” “Personally, I wanted to fight this on principle,” Raymond said. “Russ resigned the presidency rather than get OSI into that fight, and the board quite properly respected his wishes in the matter. That sacrifice makes me angrier at the fools and thugs who pulled him down.”

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