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Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

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Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#51

Post by danielweber »

seibelj wrote: post #2

Can anyone succinctly explain the benefits of having a market for private health insurance companies, rather than a single provider of health insurance (government, aka "public option")? Can a capitalist case be made for their existence? Does the lack of a large private insurance market in countries with government-provided health insurance cause lots of inefficiencies and waste?

> rather than a single provider of health insurance (government, aka "public option")

Those aren't the same thing at all.

It's impossible to debate health care at all because everyone believes a bunch of fairy tales. HN is an extremely poor place to discuss this, because people here are smart enough to think that they aren't being influenced by politics.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#53

Post by organsnyder »

seibelj wrote: post #2

Can anyone succinctly explain the benefits of having a market for private health insurance companies, rather than a single provider of health insurance (government, aka "public option")? Can a capitalist case be made for their existence? Does the lack of a large private insurance market in countries with government-provided health insurance cause lots of inefficiencies and waste?

A couple of arguments in favor of a marketplace:

1. In theory, a competitive marketplace should be able to cut costs and improve outcomes by incentivizing innovation and efficiency (of course, you also have to try to guard against incentivizing insurers to cut costs by reducing access to care). 2. Switching to a single-payer model would be incredibly disruptive to the economy. It would need to be done gradually to minimize the pain.

I actually work for a health insurer, but I've also been a big proponent of healthcare reform for quite some time (I see the ACA as a step in the right direction). I'm definitely not opposed to single-payer, but I don't think it would be a silver bullet, either.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#54

Post by bitwize »

skylan_q wrote: post #22
vectorpush wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on this reasoning?

free market systems are dynamic and adjustable to real-world inputs in a way that no planned system can match in terms of providing the most service/product to the most people. what people really want when they push for socialized medicine is equality over improvement. envy holds us back so much.

Equality for all is much better than improvement for the 1% and misery for everyone else.

Read your Wilkinson and Pickett. Aside from perhaps the environment, equality is the political and economic issue that will shape the 21st century.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#55

Post by skylan_q »

vidarh wrote: post #36
skylan_q wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

free market systems are dynamic and adjustable to real-world inputs in a way that no planned system can match in terms of providing the most service/product to the most people. what people really want when they push for socialized medicine is equality over improvement. envy holds us back so much.

That's great for the people with lots of money. Not great for the people who die or go bankrupt in the name of "improvement".

Liberalize healthcare to allow anyone to provide it.

Did you know that before the AMA was created that doctors had to do house calls or face living in abject poverty as a result of the market being flooded with healthcare professionals?

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#56

Post by vidarh »

danielweber wrote: post #32
vidarh wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany is mixed private/public insurance. EDIT: So does France.

All those countries are very different. There's this cartoon understanding the health care system, where the US has system A, and every other country in the world has system B. You will find people on both sides of the aisle believing this. Even though Germany is closer to the US than it is to France.

The big difference with respect to Germany, though, is that they are not afraid to regulate their health sector. The problem with the US model is not so much private vs. public, but a matter of lobbyists and ideology getting in the way of regulating it in the way that makes sense for people instead of for healthcare providers and insurers.

(France also has a mix of private and public healthcare insurance)

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#57

Post by Frondo »

skylan_q wrote: post #49
vidarh wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony that you are blaming social security and medicare on the US costs while US healthcare is far more expensive than almost every socialised healthcare system in the world is astounding.

Single payer systems ration the amount and quality of care given. When you ration the amount and quality of care given, you can drive costs down.

Private insurers also ration the amount and quality of care given.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#58

Post by serge2k »

Mister_Snuggles wrote: post #24
seibelj wrote: post #2

Can anyone succinctly explain the benefits of having a market for private health insurance companies, rather than a single provider of health insurance (government, aka "public option")? Can a capitalist case be made for their existence? Does the lack of a large private insurance market in countries with government-provided health insurance cause lots of inefficiencies and waste?

It's hard to tell if there are inefficiencies and waste or if health care is just simply really expensive. Health care is done by the Provinces in Canada, with transfers from the Federal Government to help out. The most recent Alberta budget[0] puts the cost of health care at about $20B. This represents approximately 40% of Alberta government spending. Is that due to waste or inefficiencies? I honestly have no idea.…

There was talk of starting to cover dental.

The prescription thing is a pain in the butt. My mom had to pay out of pocket for her medication for years, until she got a job with prescription coverage.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#59

Post by dikaiosune »

eridius wrote: post #34
VonGuard wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no benefit. The benefit is for the legislatures who passed the law. There was no way that we'd get single payer here in the US because our Congress is very much in the pocket of the health care industry. As such, the markets were a compromise measure enacted by congress to make it easier for people to choose health care. Before Obamacare, it was sort of a black box where only HR people could figure out prici…

There's no way that we'd get single payer here because the Republican party has convinced their base that single-payer health care is socialism and that socialism is evil, which leads to the situation where poor people who desperately need health care and can't afford it still oppose single-payer even though they stand to gain the most from it.

Of course, the constituencies which oppose single-payer seem often to be composed of the same people who will vote out anyone who messes with their Social Security, Medicare, or VA benefits.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#60

Post by uptown »

The public is starting to get a peek at the 2017 rates. To put it lightly, they're not pretty. This post shows the proposed premium increases, averaging around 24%. It's likely these may land somewhere below those numbers, but the cost of simply being insured before any co-pays or paying any deductibles has rapidly become unsustainable for a huge percentage of the population, especially the middle-class who earn too much for subsidies but not enough to cover the costs of proper insurance and care.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-15/obamacare-sticker-s...

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