Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger • Hacker News Board

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#31

Post by snsr » Wed, Aug 17, 2016, 6:16 PM UTC

lettergram wrote: post #19

seibelj wrote: post #2

Can anyone succinctly explain the benefits of having a market for private health insurance companies, rather than a single provider of health insurance (government, aka "public option")? Can a capitalist case be made for their existence? Does the lack of a large private insurance market in countries with government-provided health insurance cause lots of inefficiencies and waste?

The main issue with healthcare in the u.s. actually has to do with Medicare, Medicaid, and social security. All of the state options pay only ~10% of what they are billed no matter how large the bill (there is also usually a cap). This forces hospitals to charge exorbitant prices. Private insurance options pay larger percentages: 12 - 50%. People without insurance usually will pay either 100% or 0%, with some people…

> Honestly, the easiest way to fix it is to get rid of Medicare, Medicaid, and social security or force everyone to pay 100% as opposed to negotiating lower rates.

Bullshit. This isn't an easy problem, and you're casually dismissing systems that support millions of people.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#32

Post by danielweber » Wed, Aug 17, 2016, 6:16 PM UTC

vidarh wrote: post #18

njkanjsd wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The healthcare system in countries like France, Canada, Germany is much more efficient and provides better healthcare to most of it's citizens than the US healthcare system pre and post obamacare. https://www.oecd.org/eco/growth/46508904.pdf http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/press-releases/...

Germany is mixed private/public insurance. EDIT: So does France.

All those countries are very different.

There's this cartoon understanding the health care system, where the US has system A, and every other country in the world has system B. You will find people on both sides of the aisle believing this. Even though Germany is closer to the US than it is to France.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#33

Post by skylan_q » Wed, Aug 17, 2016, 6:16 PM UTC

lg wrote: post #23

skylan_q wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i couldn't in any good conscience support single-payer or socialized medicine it's the same economic model that created breadlines

it's also the same economic system that saved american seniors from dying destitute before SS and medicare.

help 5 people, hurt 100 people.

the idea that SS and medicare are great and have done wonders is what's causing the country to go broke and costs to skyrocket.

it was never good in the first place. you see the benefits when the programs are implemented, but everyone fails to see the costs and lost future opportunities.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#34

Post by eridius » Wed, Aug 17, 2016, 6:16 PM UTC

VonGuard wrote: post #9

seibelj wrote: post #2

Can anyone succinctly explain the benefits of having a market for private health insurance companies, rather than a single provider of health insurance (government, aka "public option")? Can a capitalist case be made for their existence? Does the lack of a large private insurance market in countries with government-provided health insurance cause lots of inefficiencies and waste?

There is no benefit. The benefit is for the legislatures who passed the law. There was no way that we'd get single payer here in the US because our Congress is very much in the pocket of the health care industry. As such, the markets were a compromise measure enacted by congress to make it easier for people to choose health care. Before Obamacare, it was sort of a black box where only HR people could figure out prici…

There's no way that we'd get single payer here because the Republican party has convinced their base that single-payer health care is socialism and that socialism is evil, which leads to the situation where poor people who desperately need health care and can't afford it still oppose single-payer even though they stand to gain the most from it.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#35

Post by Frondo » Wed, Aug 17, 2016, 6:17 PM UTC

VonGuard wrote: post #9

seibelj wrote: post #2

Can anyone succinctly explain the benefits of having a market for private health insurance companies, rather than a single provider of health insurance (government, aka "public option")? Can a capitalist case be made for their existence? Does the lack of a large private insurance market in countries with government-provided health insurance cause lots of inefficiencies and waste?

There is no benefit. The benefit is for the legislatures who passed the law. There was no way that we'd get single payer here in the US because our Congress is very much in the pocket of the health care industry. As such, the markets were a compromise measure enacted by congress to make it easier for people to choose health care. Before Obamacare, it was sort of a black box where only HR people could figure out prici…

Obamacare has had one significant, lasting effect: culturally, the idea is now that everyone should have access to health care. That's the default. Bringing in a public option will be an easy, natural next step, if not for Clinton, then for whoever succeeds her.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#36

Post by vidarh » Wed, Aug 17, 2016, 6:17 PM UTC

skylan_q wrote: post #22

vectorpush wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on this reasoning?

free market systems are dynamic and adjustable to real-world inputs in a way that no planned system can match in terms of providing the most service/product to the most people. what people really want when they push for socialized medicine is equality over improvement. envy holds us back so much.

That's great for the people with lots of money. Not great for the people who die or go bankrupt in the name of "improvement".

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#37

Post by Cursuviam » Wed, Aug 17, 2016, 6:17 PM UTC

api wrote: post #26

seibelj wrote: post #2

Can anyone succinctly explain the benefits of having a market for private health insurance companies, rather than a single provider of health insurance (government, aka "public option")? Can a capitalist case be made for their existence? Does the lack of a large private insurance market in countries with government-provided health insurance cause lots of inefficiencies and waste?

There's no benefit I can see. Our present system combines everything that is bad about "socialized" medicine (loads of regulation, bureaucracy, inflexibility, etc.) with everything that is bad about private medicine (inequality, high cost, fragmentation).

One of the few benefits is that the rich do well in this system.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#38

Post by skylan_q » Wed, Aug 17, 2016, 6:17 PM UTC

vidarh wrote: post #28

skylan_q wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i couldn't in any good conscience support single-payer or socialized medicine it's the same economic model that created breadlines

Gee, I missed the bread lines when I grew up in Norway, and I must've managed to miss them in the UK too.

I live in Canada so I get "free" healthcare as well.

Norway's system of delivering food isn't a full socialist/single-payer model, so you wouldn't get breadlines there.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#39

Post by jasonlotito » Wed, Aug 17, 2016, 6:17 PM UTC

mhurron wrote: post #16

seibelj wrote: post #2

Can anyone succinctly explain the benefits of having a market for private health insurance companies, rather than a single provider of health insurance (government, aka "public option")? Can a capitalist case be made for their existence? Does the lack of a large private insurance market in countries with government-provided health insurance cause lots of inefficiencies and waste?

> Can anyone succinctly explain the benefits of having a market for private health insurance companies, rather than a single provider of health insurance For the citizen, none. For the insurance companies, they get forced signups. > Does the lack of a large private insurance market in countries with government-provided health insurance cause lots of inefficiencies and waste? The US spends the most of any nation on he…

> For the citizen, none.

Actually, that's false. I can assure you that having lived in Canada and having moved to the US because of health care, having options beyond "deal with it" when not getting any sort of care or service is wonderful. Single-payer is great if you are actually getting the care you need. But when it fails, you are left with little to no alternative.

What's worse is that because of the perception that single-payer is so great, people don't really push for real solutions to solve its many problems. People would rather stick their head in the sand and ignore the very real problems, pretending everything is ok.

Until then, we happily live here in the US where we get more services for less than what it would have cost in Canada.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#40

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 17, 2016, 6:17 PM UTC

njkanjsd wrote: post #5

seibelj wrote: post #2

Can anyone succinctly explain the benefits of having a market for private health insurance companies, rather than a single provider of health insurance (government, aka "public option")? Can a capitalist case be made for their existence? Does the lack of a large private insurance market in countries with government-provided health insurance cause lots of inefficiencies and waste?

The healthcare system in countries like France, Canada, Germany is much more efficient and provides better healthcare to most of it's citizens than the US healthcare system pre and post obamacare. https://www.oecd.org/eco/growth/46508904.pdf http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/press-releases/...

[deleted]