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Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

nytimes.com

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Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#211

Post by sushiwarrior »

youngButEager wrote: post #162
superswordfish wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly do you know which of your tenants are using cannabis? Do you drug test your tenants? > You should not need to live in an altered state, intoxication, and if you are frequently choosing intoxication from pot as 'recreation', something is wrong. Your comment is ironic evidence for insobriety. Anger, stress and frustration are all palpable, and you may need some help to unwind. Hell, I could use a beer after…

Imagine showing vacant apartments to prospective renters since 1993 -- for 23 years. Lots of units, lots of prospective tenants. In 1993 I had no pool of 'before move-in/after move-in' experience with tenants. 23 years on, I have a large number of 'before move-in/after move-in' tenant experiences. So when a tenancy went bad, over time I started making a mental note of 1) the social cues the tenant made when I first m…

This really leads like a list of reasons for your prejudice and stereotyping/profiling people. You only actually have positive confirmation for the ones who disrespect others and violate the rules of the lease, while you may have many people who consume regularly and are still able to respect others. By doing things like respecting the fact smoking inside makes a huge smell (and take edibles/use a smokebuddy/vaporize/go for a walk and smoke) and respecting parking rules, or even other social rules such as not smoking cigarettes (a more outwardly "rebellious" behaviour), these individuals don't make problems, can interact nicely, and you totally forget about them.

This all just reads like a 23-year long confirmation bias building up.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#212

Post by tamana »

55555 wrote: post #164
contemporary2u wrote: post #77

The big question is why drugs are illegal at all? Drugs are a multi trillion dollar business. 100's of billions of dollars turning the wheels of the shadow economy every day. Who stands to lose all that money if drugs were legalized? Who is involved in drug business? think of all of the players in the chain.. We know examples of developed countries where drugs are legalized and everyone did not become a junkie over n…

I recommend people read The Politics of Heroin and A Legacy of Ashes. Both great books. Basically, The US makes drugs illegal and then enforces embargoes against other countries so they comply. Drugs have a very inelastic demand so this doesn't actually stop people from using them, but it DOES make drugs an extremely profitable enterprise. Keeping drugs illegal has at least one massive 'benefit' -- if law enforcement…

How does CIA stop the DEA from stopping foreign drug dealers?

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#213

Post by CamperBob2 »

lisivka wrote: post #147
Clubber wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a huge confirmation bias. You only hear about the horror stories, while people who are perfectly fine are afraid to admit so much, because of social stigmas and prejudices. Hell most companies require a drug screening as a condition of employment. People who smoke pot aren't going to come out and mention it at the water cooler for fear of retribution. I was talking with a co-worker about US laws in general a…

Yeah, we are hearing only horror stories about people walking on red signal, while majority of people are perfectly fine. It's time to legalize walking on red sign.

As opposed to your (implied) recommendation, which is for society to spend hundreds of billions of dollars a year enforcing jaywalking statutes.

Let's fix the potholes before we go after the pot users.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#214

Post by thomyorkie »

youngButEager wrote: post #204
thomyorkie wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that you've had some bad experiences with people who also happen to smoke marijuana, but you are painting with much too broad a brush. You must ask yourself: how accurate are you in your assessment of who smokes marijuana and who doesn't? For some of your tenants, I'm sure it's obvious that they partake. But, I'd wager many of your 'good' tenants do as well, and you have no idea. It's really not hard to…

'DGAF' is not always evident in the short time we meet, interact with a new tenant. Unlike a job interview process (several stages of contact: phone, in person several times, etc.) it's not practical for landlords to spend that much time with each prospective tenant. The 18 tenants I've evicted in the past year and half -- they ALL slipped 'under the radar.' My "cues/indicators" list above is 100% NOT all inclusive.…

> "Pot smokers are T-R-O-U-B-L-E"

There is an error in your reasoning process which has been pointed out several times now (not just by me). I encourage a bit of introspection.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#215

Post by rayiner »

arcticbull wrote: post #206
will_brown wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There may be 2 seperate issues, so I think the question is: Do the inmates in federal prison qualify as low level drug offenders ? Moreover, the term being discussed isn't a legal term with a definition, so as a result everyone kind of has their own opinion as to what qualifies. So for example, when I think of low level drug offenders forget people in federal prison and I would also think the vast majority of inmates…

My perspective on smuggling is that it can be non-violent (concealing a substance to get it through the a port of entry) and is a natural response to criminalization of a substance that people want but is being artificially constrained. Further, this question maybe entirely immaterial as I'd imagine the bulk of this would go away completely with legalization and safe access. I think we'd be left with the same levels…

It might be a natural response, but that doesn't mean it should be legal. There is a big difference between making it illegal to consume a product that hurts you, and making it illegal to produce and sell a product that hurts the people who buy it.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#216

Post by tptacek »

mastax wrote: post #134
rayiner wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few non-violent drug offenders are incarcerated.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/dofp12.pdf - More than a third (35%) of drug offenders in federal prison at sentencing, had either no or minimal criminal history— lowest criminal history category. - Nearly a quarter (24%) of drug offenders in federal prison used a weapon in their most recent offense. Which is to say over 3/4 of them did not.

That's federal prison. The overwhelming majority of inmates are not in federal prison. The numbers are very different at the state level.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#217

Post by chillwaves »

tamana wrote: post #200
lisivka wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, we are hearing only horror stories about people walking on red signal, while majority of people are perfectly fine. It's time to legalize walking on red sign.

Yes, cars should drive slower when near pedestrians.

Encaging myself in steel and gasoline makes me a God. Out of the way, mortal. We are not equals.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#218

Post by indlebe »

martinald wrote: post #13

While I'm totally for drug (all drugs - not just cannabis) legalisation/regulation, I do think the "dangers" of marijuana have been really downplayed over the last few years. I know a lot of people at university who got into smoking it very often and basically lost 10+ years of their life to complete apathy to anything. Some have now stopped and are totally different people - just 10 years behind. While it doesn't ca…

But... I will argue that marijuana may sometimes have the OPPOSITE effect.

Anecdotal evidence: John Smith, from a lower-income family, grows up a small rural community, 30 minutes outside a mill town with a population of 13k. He's around 13 years old, a computer nerd in the 90s and doesn't really fit in with the rest of the folks in his small school (grade K-8, Total pop 190 pupils). Alcohol has already introduced itself to John as it was common for kids of his age to consume stolen booze.

His next door neighbour's son visits, he's a few years older than John and introduces John to marijuana. John begins smoking it occasionally at the early age of 13. Through his newfound interest in marijuana, he starts visiting alternative websites, listening to the Doors, reading books by writers like Hunter S. Thompson, and eventual Aldous Huxley. John continues smoking weed, increasing to daily, as he finds it opens his mind to being more creative and understanding the content better.

At 15, John moves to a city 3 hours away that has a university. He looks into University courses and sneaks his way into the larger seminars after high school, on topics such as the existence of UFOs and quantum mechanics. He begins smoking pot with university students after seminars and has rich discussions with them. This leads to joining the local anime club and computer science club. Pot still remains the social lubricant for John and his social circle.

Flash forward: John has moved to the other side of his large country, is an IT manager at a world-class organization as well as a private contractor, lives a comfortable middle-class life with a long term partner. He visits home every year and helps family with their business. He still consumes marijuana daily.

True story.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#219

Post by arcticbull »

rayiner wrote: post #215
arcticbull wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My perspective on smuggling is that it can be non-violent (concealing a substance to get it through the a port of entry) and is a natural response to criminalization of a substance that people want but is being artificially constrained. Further, this question maybe entirely immaterial as I'd imagine the bulk of this would go away completely with legalization and safe access. I think we'd be left with the same levels…

It might be a natural response, but that doesn't mean it should be legal. There is a big difference between making it illegal to consume a product that hurts you, and making it illegal to produce and sell a product that hurts the people who buy it.

Agreed 100%, I'm saying that if we're deciding to treat this as a public health problem, provide safe/monitored/controlled access officially (like cigarettes) then the illegal network dries up as a side-effect. I'm not saying we should legalize to get rid of traffickers, I'm saying that legalizing for public health reasons will by consequence get rid of the traffickers.
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