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Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

nytimes.com

141–150 of 266 posts

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#141
post #134
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few non-violent drug offenders are incarcerated.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/dofp12.pdf - More than a third (35%) of drug offenders in federal prison at sentencing, had either no or minimal criminal history— lowest criminal history category. - Nearly a quarter (24%) of drug offenders in federal prison used a weapon in their most recent offense. Which is to say over 3/4 of them did not.

There may be 2 seperate issues, so I think the question is:

Do the inmates in federal prison qualify as low level drug offenders?

Moreover, the term being discussed isn't a legal term with a definition, so as a result everyone kind of has their own opinion as to what qualifies. So for example, when I think of low level drug offenders forget people in federal prison and I would also think the vast majority of inmates in state prison fall outside my definition. Basically, when I think low level drug offender I am thinking about people who are in county jails.

Edit: Your citation explains the vast majority of those first time offenders in federal prison are there for drug trafficking, that is why I discard federal prison as low level.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe cigarettes and other tobacco products should be unlawful. If one wants to grow and dry their own tobacco to smoke, I am okay with that. But, productizing addiction of known deleterious substances should be illegal.

But, productizing addiction of known deleterious substances should be illegal. Are you really willing to give up on sugar?

In all honesty, I would if it meant not having to smell cigarette smokers' smoke in public places.

And the obscene amount of refined sugar in our diets isn't doing us any favors. A couple months sugar-free and everyone's palate would adapt.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah okay i didn't think of that, that is a pity then yes, as travelling broadens/opens the mind better then cannabis hehe. Specially seeing how other people have to live, struggle or live glamorous, etc. Using cannabis (being high) does make it easy to postpone things, and before you know it its indeed postponed 10 years. Though i have had this idea/thought too, i'm still getting less convinced about this. I've seen t…

>travelling broadens/opens the mind This is bullshit. Most travel is leisure, just like cannabis, and not at all mind expanding. This is just a game of "my hobby is better than yours".

And you cannot get a nice idea or realisation, gain some knowledge when you are doing something considered 'leisure'? Must be interesting hanging out with you outside office hours.

(also not saying anything was better, i like it all, including wasting some hours a week on a videogame)

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>anecdotal evidence of people smoking marijuana everyday for 10-20 years and remaining extremely productive. // What roles, in what areas, have they risen to in this time?

I've smoked for 15+ years, I earn in the top 5% of the UK writing software for big players if that is a metric you respect. Only as a software developer although I've had the opportunity to be "promoted" I chose to write code...for more money. However I recognize that the amount I am smoking of current is affecting my cognitive load (I think). If I was drinking alcohol in the same amount I smoke cannabis I'd be an al…

I've got high almost daily for the past 15 years. I'm also a programmer and I am proud of what I have accomplished. A year ago I quit smoking and started preparing and eating edibles instead. This was for health reasons but another benefit is that I am now able to dose myself much more precisely. There is a level which improves my productivity and focus, where I really feel in the zone. Sometimes when I am trying to solve a difficult problem, getting high helps me to break through.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#145
INSIGHT: Being in a position to observe the behavior of users -- MANY users -- over a period of time, and non-users in the same settings.

Most of you probably don't have that experience.

- Parents do. Ask parents "how did your kid change after commencing use of pot?"

- Teachers do, if they know a student imbibes. These days teachers have a great chance to see the difference between regular students and those who smoke it.

- Property managers of apartment properties do.

I'm the latter. I made my Silicon Valley startup bucks and have been buying and operating apartment properties since 1993, 2 years out of college.

Here's what I experience:

1) my pot using tenants do not like following rules compared to other tenants.

2) they are defiant in their attitude to varying degrees, challenging things they initially agree to ("no smoking", "new occupants must pass the same tenant screening you did and must be added to the lease", "no guest parking", "no loud parties/noise after 10pm", etc).

RECENT EXPERIENCES - tenant moves in, it's a no smoking building, they begin smoking pot in their unit EVEN THOUGH there are 'no smoking' signs everywhere and the lease clearly calls for 'no smoking cigars/cigarettes/marijuana'. THAT'S HAPPENED 18 TIMES (18 different tenants) IN THE PAST year and a half.

- tenant moves in, gets a warning for their car blocking other tenants in the parking lot, they kept blowing it off, parking and blocking others. FIVE TIMES over a 2 month period until they were evicted.

- tenant moves in someone without adding them to the lease (a requirement), we catch them, the added person does not pass the normal tenant screening process and they have to leave, the original tenant keeps them there anyway, we catch them, gave them a final warning, they ignored the final warning, and got evicted

Just a very small set of examples.

IF YOU SMOKE, you are the LAST person to know if your pot use has changed you, added some negatives to your behavior. "A doctor who treats himself has a fool for a patient."

I myself imbibed for 3 years as a teen. WHAT AN UNMITIGATED DISASTER. Normal recreation time was clouded by intoxication.

If you prefer being intoxicated in your leisure time, how would you feel telling people that?

"I like being intoxicated. It's my recreational activity."

OR

"I like being intoxicated during my leisure time."

OR

"When I spend free time with recreational pursuits, I like being intoxicated."

VERY FEW pot users will admit that to arbitrary others. Deep inside, we know to ourselves "I shouldn't need intoxication to enjoy myself."

You should not need to live in an altered state, intoxication, and if you are frequently choosing intoxication from pot as 'recreation', something is wrong.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#146
post #82

The DEA needs to go bye bye, and be replaced by the DRA, Drug Rehabilitation Agency. While I respect the risks operational agents take against crime syndicates, the war on drugs is a disaster. Even the government’s own RAND corporation concluded enforcement is far worse than rehabilitation, with rehab being 7 times more effective than policing, 400 times more effective then border interdiction, and 800 times more eff…

> If the goal is for politicians to sound tough and maintain a never ending drug war so they can keep sounding tough, then it’s a success.

Part of their goal is also to provide their cronies in the prison-industrial complex with a steady supply of victims.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#147
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know both. I have family members who smoke routinely for basically their lives. You would never know, they don't let it interrupt their life. To them it is more like coming home and having a glass of wine and relaxing on the couch with a good book. I also know and lived with roommates for whom marijuana was a real problem. The kind of person who would smoke every day, even coming home on their lunch break and takin…

There is a huge confirmation bias. You only hear about the horror stories, while people who are perfectly fine are afraid to admit so much, because of social stigmas and prejudices. Hell most companies require a drug screening as a condition of employment. People who smoke pot aren't going to come out and mention it at the water cooler for fear of retribution. I was talking with a co-worker about US laws in general a…

Yeah, we are hearing only horror stories about people walking on red signal, while majority of people are perfectly fine. It's time to legalize walking on red sign.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#148
post #112
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We seem to be ok with people dropping out and becoming monks, but somehow living a relaxed lifestyle is somehow a major problem. Is it ok for people not to be a cog in the machine that makes your lifestyle possible or not? Sure, I might be happier if my past self saved even more money, lived a vegan lifestyle, or learned to play an instrument. But, I don't think it's a problem that I have failed to optimize for makin…

I would rephrase be a cog in the machine to "contributing to society". If someone wants to live a hedonistic carefree life, more power to them. But this is often coupled with abusing the social safety net designed for people who are down on their luck and can't contribute enough to society due to no fault of their own.

Pot is an expensive habit in large quantities which is not really conducive to staying on welfare. The issue is self sufficiency is not really enough without 2.2 kids thing break down long term. Further without economic growth our system is completely unsustainable.

So, if parity is not enough and everyone must be a net contributer, well that's a cog.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#149
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are people allowed to downvote medical studies from highly regarded journals? Journal of the American Medical Association, American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology, and Obstetrics and Gynecology? What kind of human being would want increased babies neurologically deprived from marijuana exposure or additional stillbirths? Instead of downvoting, why don't you explain why you want these effects in infants?

Replace Marijuana with Alcohol in that comment and it's all still true. But Alcohol is not schedule 1.

I don't follow. It is ok to downvote medical studies from leading medical journals because alcohol already harms infants? And I suppose people reason that marijuana use will not lead to any increase at all of neurologically harmed infants?

Perhaps someone could explain why they want to adopt policy that will lead to an increase of neurologically harmed infants and stillbirths.

Empathy is key. Try to imagine infants that have been harmed by marijuana use by their mothers before their mothers knew they were pregnant. Not certain why anyone would want to increase the number of neurologically harmed infants.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#150

While I'm totally for drug (all drugs - not just cannabis) legalisation/regulation, I do think the "dangers" of marijuana have been really downplayed over the last few years. I know a lot of people at university who got into smoking it very often and basically lost 10+ years of their life to complete apathy to anything. Some have now stopped and are totally different people - just 10 years behind. While it doesn't ca…

Sounds a lot like World of Warcraft, the way you describe it. Maybe we should criminalize MMORPGs?

That part is a bit of a bad joke, but I've known people who have lost chunks of their lives to WoW, and the criticisms you outline for cannabis seem to mirror my perception of WoW very closely—"addictive", "causes them to be extremely unmotivated", and "a lot of people end up really trapped by it".

To be honest, when I was in college, I was more worried about the potential dangers of WoW than I was worried about cannabis or other recreational drugs, chief among them alcohol and caffeine, but also cannabis. I had a "just say no to WoW" attitude.

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