I Don’t Care How Well You Code, Understand Your Compensation • Hacker News Board

Re: I Don’t Care How Well You Code, Understand Your Compensation

#291

Post by ad-hominem » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 5:50 PM UTC

dpeterson wrote: post #276

nommm-nommm wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe in the Valley startup culture but I live very far from the Valley and that's not even close to my experience at all. What kind of "physical strain" does typing code result in? I seriously have one of the most flexible and lowest stress job than anyone I know.

Hmmm, "And if you go in on a Saturday afternoon, I can tell you which start-ups will succeed, without even knowing what they do. Being there on the weekend is a huge indicator of success" - Marissa Mayer Maybe you can get away with doing just your job and going home to relax. I would wager, you may have difficulty finding your next job however. Have you never programmed so much you start having dreams that it takes s…

> And if you go in on a Saturday afternoon, I can tell you which start-ups will succeed, without even knowing what they do. Being there on the weekend is a huge indicator of success" - Marissa Mayer

Perhaps (perhaps) this applies to startups.

> Maybe you can get away with doing just your job and going home to relax.

Most professionals do this, yes.

> I would wager, you may have difficulty finding your next job however.

Presuming he is actually a skilled programmer, almost certainly not.

> Have you never programmed so much you start having dreams that it takes steps to breath and you subsequently have a difficult time breathing?

This is not normal, if this is your experience from working perhaps you should look into changing companies / careers. Please, do not take your own health lightly. If this is what your job is doing to your body, you need to find a new job.

> The physical toll takes years to manifest. I am in my 30s. If I did not exercise at least every other day I would not be able to continue doing what I do.

It's good that you're exercising, but as a 30 something developer myself, I have never, ever felt like my job is taking a toll on my body. Even in my periods of most sedentary laziness. Perhaps your experience is not indicative of others' experiences?

> You are most likely in your early 20s. Wait and see what a lifetime of programming does to your nervous system.

I would love to see studies that point to any type of harm from programming. Not sitting at an office desk, but programming specifically.

> I would not be surprised if a study reveals programming causes brain damage.

Oh, I see, haha, you've been joking this whole time, good one!

I really thought you were serious.

Re: I Don’t Care How Well You Code, Understand Your Compensation

#292

Post by dionidium » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 6:00 PM UTC

gaius wrote: post #288

scandox wrote: post #127

People who care about money will always have trouble understanding people that don't care about money - and vice-versa. (Obviously, the context here is a milieu in which everybody has enough for basic needs.) It's all about head space. Caring about money is quite a binary thing: once you engage with it, it's a huge commitment - intellectually and emotionally. People who don't care about money understand that they're…

But more money is always better - if you don't need it, donate it to an animal shelter or something. What do you think happens to money that you leave on the table? Someone else takes it, and they might spend it less responsibly than you would. So if it's there take it and then at least you can control it.

There is a cost to gathering up the money left on the table. That's the whole point.

Re: I Don’t Care How Well You Code, Understand Your Compensation

#293

Post by stevenwiles » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 6:01 PM UTC

jasode wrote: post #122

ihsw wrote: post #107

Honestly what's wrong with just paying people a lot of cash? Why the swindling with securities? Because that's all it is -- look at a 10 year timespan between two developers, one making cash and one making cash+options, and you will see a difference in how much they take home. Stock options are all smoke and mirrors, nine times out of ten. I'm all for giving people more financial opportunities that integrate with the…

>Honestly what's wrong with just paying people a lot of cash? The context of the blog post is "startups". Startups without significant revenue don't have a lot of cash to pay high salaries. Another reason for stock compensation is to tap into the power of incentives. Hopefully, the potential equity upside attracts employees who think their work contributions can boost the value of the company (and hence their stock o…

> Hopefully, the potential equity upside attracts employees who think their work contributions can boost the value of the company (and hence their stock options) rather than mercenaries who just want a paycheck.

It's hard to believe companies genuinely want this when offering 0.025% of common stock to your early engineering hires has become common practice.

Re: I Don’t Care How Well You Code, Understand Your Compensation

#294

Post by alanwatts » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 6:07 PM UTC

gaius wrote: post #252

alanwatts wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How do those systems manage capital-intensive projects? The use of the word "capital" here indicates a misunderstanding of the social dynamics of tribal economies. They produce and consume that which they need together because of shared benefit. Large scale centralized constructions like the Golden Gate Bridge, the Hoover Dam, or power grids are built to serve the stationary needs of the big city not the small, dist…

Such a tribe would either be pre-technological then, or piggybacking on a technological society that did make those investments.

>piggybacking on a technological society that did make those investments.

Indeed, every technological advancement has piggy backed on those before it.

Re: I Don’t Care How Well You Code, Understand Your Compensation

#295

Post by steven777400 » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 6:13 PM UTC

heurist wrote: post #270

nommm-nommm wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe in the Valley startup culture but I live very far from the Valley and that's not even close to my experience at all. What kind of "physical strain" does typing code result in? I seriously have one of the most flexible and lowest stress job than anyone I know.

Sitting in one position while making only minute movements and staring at a screen causes significant strain if you don't balance it out with exercise.

My favorite improvement that our agency made to our workspace isn't the dual monitors, isn't the shorter hardware upgrade cycle; my favorite improvement is the sit-stand desk. Seriously. I think every desk worker should get something like this.

I used to have all sorts of minor aches and pains from sitting most of the day. Now I spent an hour standing, an hour sitting, plus the usual breaks, etc. I'm more productive and happier. If your company won't buy one for you, buy it yourself. It's worth it.

Re: I Don’t Care How Well You Code, Understand Your Compensation

#296

Post by jazzyk » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 6:19 PM UTC

dagss wrote: post #263

jazzyk wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I would argue that plumbers, sewage workers and farmers should be paid higher than programmers. Self-employed plumbers are paid higher than programmers. Every plumber I reached out to quoted $130/hr and they are all booked for weeks in advance.

A lot of self-employed consultant/freelance programmers charge that or more, and are booked for months (on the same project..)

True, but most plumbers are self-employed, most programmers are not...

Re: I Don’t Care How Well You Code, Understand Your Compensation

#297

Post by uxp100 » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 6:51 PM UTC

no_flags wrote: post #194

wschroed wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hubris: http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-dangerous-jobs/

Taxi drivers more likely to die from homicide than a traffic accident! That's shocking. I wonder what explains this. Is it armed robberies gone wrong?

I think that is correct, though I'm not sure if there is anyone who tracks the exact cause, maybe it would surprise us.

Last time I heard about a violence against a taxi driver they were shot in the back in a carjacking, and then the assailant was not able to bypass some interlock device to actually restart the cab. So the cab company makes it hard to actually get away with the car, but the driver is probably carrying a lot of cash.

Re: I Don’t Care How Well You Code, Understand Your Compensation

#298

Post by lfowles » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 7:03 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #182

olavgg wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes programmers are well compensated, but they are also in very high demand. One day at a big family union I got three phonecalls from recruiters. My whole family rolled their eyes, while I politely said no to those recruiters with below average offers. I told them that this is usual, I get a few phonecalls from recruiters every week. None of them who work as doctors, teachers, accounting, geophysicist, even an old C…

To be fair, most programmers also have never experienced a recruiter literally cold calling them sight unseen with a job offer. It's usually "hey can we chat, I know of a great company..." which is so different from a job offer it's meaningless.

Right, I get maybe two recruiters contacting me via email per year. Even then it's occasionally asking me if I have any leads for them...

Re: I Don’t Care How Well You Code, Understand Your Compensation

#299

Post by r_smart » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 7:05 PM UTC

sethammons wrote: post #193

nilkn wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's truth here, but I also think programmers routinely underestimate the quality and compensation of other careers that they think are "below" them. For instance, you did it in this very post. Do you really think that all high school teachers are locked into making $40k for life? Here where I live (a large city, but also a pretty affordable one), teachers start at ~$55k in base salary, get a whole range o…

Annecdata: as a teacher in an inner city high school, I did not break past 50k/year for the three years I was there. That includes the summers I worked. Between grading, lesson planning, meetings, and teaching, my typical week day started before 7am, ended around 8pm or later. Typically most of my Saturday was used up and half my Sunday. Normally all of spring and winter break was used up likewise. I typically got cl…

Teachers make less to start as a result of the unions. The people running the union are later in their careers so the increased wages tend to accumulate to more senior positions. At least, that's how it's going for my friend who is a teacher.

Once you put in the time it pretty much turns into one of the most comfortable jobs you can get between decent compensation, lots of time off, good benefits.

Re: I Don’t Care How Well You Code, Understand Your Compensation

#300

Post by mosselman » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 7:22 PM UTC

senko wrote: post #51

mosselman wrote: post #41

Misleading title and premise: The author makes it seem as if something will be explained for people who are not 'financially-savvy', but nothing is explained. In fact it is made more complex. Which is fine, but still it was kind of misleading. Solid advice to get financial advice nonetheless. Can someone explain this part to my/some-of-us like I am five?: "Which muppets advised them to spend hard-earned cash to exerc…

> exercise a non-liquid, highly volatile financial instrument? Buy something that can't be converted quickly and easily back into cash ( non-liquid ), and whose value changes a lot ( highly volatile ). This means if it starts to go down, you can't get rid of it fast enough and you stand to lose a lot. > the expected value equation, given that Good Technology was nowhere near exit The value equation would be, the outc…

Thank you for the explanation. Would 'buy something' in this case mean to choose options over 'normal' compensation (salary)? Or were employees advised to buy extra options in the company at some point?

Also, I thought there was a difference between options and equity and the assumption I have heard some people have is that 'equity' is safer than 'options', but if I think about it now it seems as if options are just what equity consists of. Is there a difference and does one consist of the other? While I understand that I should probably consult Duck Duck Go on this some more, I still ask seeing as you seem to be knowledgeable on the subject.