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Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

psychology.stanford.edu

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Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#101

Post by nine_k »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #80
jedberg wrote: post #2

TL;DR: If you're interacting with a kid, try to avoid saying, "you're so smart!" and instead say, "You've picked this up really quickly" or "you're such a hard worker". If you tell a child they are smart then they will stop trying either because they assume they can get by on their intelligence or because they are afraid of failing and loosing your praise about how smart they are.

Having raised three kids I have learned that 99% of all parenting advice does not apply to any specific child and any specific parent. That said, parenting goals are consistent; Helping kids to understand the world around them, understand their effect on the world, and recognizing what it will take to achieve a particular goal. Telling kids they are "smart" is part of the "understanding the world around them" goal. T…

You just have to pass the message "you are important and loved as you are" separately from feedback to a particular task. Your accomplishments do not define you as a whole, but do define the mark you honestly receive.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#102

Post by ken47 »

metaphorm wrote: post #98
ken47 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is utter bullshit. Let the fucking kid enjoy some self-esteem. You don't think a person can have self-esteem based on their work ethic?

false dichotomy. a person can have self-esteem based on EITHER or BOTH of those characteristics.

It's not. His comment continues: "Focusing on improving his "motivation" instead of his well-being..."

The use of "instead of," combined with the linked paper's recommendation of praising for effort rather than ability, implies that this dichotomy is anything but false in his mind.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#103

Post by mkane848 »

See, my parents did this thing where they'd tell me how smart I am all the time, then whenever there would be an argument or a disagreement "Oh, you're just SO smart and we're all SO stupid".

I'm already one of those people with a generally dry/sarcastic sense of humor (think Ruxin from The League, "I can't even tell when you're joking" kinda thing), so I have a hard time telling when I'm actually being an asshole or condescending or not, because while I seriously try to watch myself I still occasionally get the feeling that I came off the wrong way or, well, condescendingly. "You just think you're sooooo smart..."

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#104

Post by fragola »

AStellersSeaCow wrote: post #100

As an aside, I think this sort of upbringing is a significant contributing factor to the personality type that shows up frequently in the most toxic online groups (MRAs, gamergaters, PUAs, etc). In my glimpses, it's been abundantly clear that many of them are highly intelligent and not much else: single, with shitty jobs, no exceptional skills, and dim prospects for the future. But because they grew up being told the…

My parents unfortunately did this to my brother. Especially my mom: "oh you're SO handsome/smart/awesome, all the girls will love you, you should go to the best colleges" etc. He is an extremely unpleasant person now, and definitely not popular with women.

It is not entirely parents' fault. I mean, a ton of men have had the same type of conditioning, but then go on to have a series of uncomfortable epiphanies in high school and college that lead to self-improvement and later happiness. But it for sure is setting your kid up for misery, whether temporary or permanent.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#105

Post by hinkley »

Practicality wrote: post #81

I tell my child she is smart AND that that isn't enough for us. We know she is smart, but so are we and we can tell when she is slacking and lying. It's actually working very well, but it took quite a while for her to believe us. In the long run she is showing a deep appreciation for how honest we are with her. This would likely work with most smarter children. If you don't play mind games with them they will stop tr…

The developmental advice I've heard is that you should praise the act, not the attribute.

That is, if they do something clever, you praise the clever thing they did, not the fact that they're clever. I know that probably sounds like splitting hairs, but kids and adults have at least as many issues communicating as adults and other adults have.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#106

Post by gkya »

Practicality wrote: post #95
gkya wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lesson being: be normal and normal only, otherwise you will be made so, through intoleration, discrimination and assimilation . Public school system is for average people, and I don't mean anything hostile saying that. You are, on the base of your story here, above average in your intellectual capacity, and don't need to go through the chores others need to go through to succeed your class. There's nothing unjust…

No need to apologize, you are 100% right.

Sometimes one needs to apologise for objective points to not be called 'uncivil'...

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#107

Post by [deleted] »

ganeumann wrote: post #62
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #13

Stop trying to game your kids. Praise them whatever. Love, security, praise, attention, just go for it. I doubt very much that all the noise around raising children can be filtered out to be able to differentiate between sentences. Just raise kids with love and fun.

I'll skip the humility. I'm smart. Always have been. My parents realized it early on and praised me for it. I pretty much slept through high school because after a couple of minutes of explanation of any math, science or computer science concept I grasped it. I never did any work, although I read a lot about the subjects I enjoyed, because I enjoyed them. The non-STEM stuff was confusingly ill-defined and in those su…

[deleted]

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#108

Post by lifeisstillgood »

pasquinelli wrote: post #71
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #13

Stop trying to game your kids. Praise them whatever. Love, security, praise, attention, just go for it. I doubt very much that all the noise around raising children can be filtered out to be able to differentiate between sentences. Just raise kids with love and fun.

"Stop trying to game your kids." i really like that, nice and succinct. i figure that the ways that i am which are outside of my control, or even my awareness, dwarf the ways i am that are within my control. my efforts to be a good parent are almost insignificant compared to, i don't know, my posture and facial expression while speaking with the cashier at the grocery store, and all the other things like that. maybe…

Yes, that. My role model is more likely to influence than my lecture.

Nice point

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#109

Post by timthorn »

taylorwc wrote: post #14
timthorn wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition, the work being praised needs to be effective.

I disagree. If your child does something to the absolute best of his/her abilities, but is not very effective, isn't that still praiseworthy? I have a two year old who exhibits no mastery of the English language, but I praise her when she tries out a new word on for size and keeps attempting to perfect it.

It might be praiseworthy, but I was talking from the perspective of using praise to improve attainment. Dweck has written about the misapplication of her theories in recent years: http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2015/09/23/carol-dweck-rev...
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