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Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

psychology.stanford.edu

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Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#71

Post by pasquinelli »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #13

Stop trying to game your kids. Praise them whatever. Love, security, praise, attention, just go for it. I doubt very much that all the noise around raising children can be filtered out to be able to differentiate between sentences. Just raise kids with love and fun.

"Stop trying to game your kids."

i really like that, nice and succinct.

i figure that the ways that i am which are outside of my control, or even my awareness, dwarf the ways i am that are within my control. my efforts to be a good parent are almost insignificant compared to, i don't know, my posture and facial expression while speaking with the cashier at the grocery store, and all the other things like that.

maybe your last sentence should be, "Just raise kids with love and fun, and work on your own damn self."

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#72

Post by [deleted] »

nitrogen wrote: post #29

Could it not be equally harmful to a smart kid to give them the impression that their intelligence is worthless? It seems there should be a balance where kids retain their motivation while also learning how to make the most of their personal advantages and disadvantages. If a smart kid is always taught the convenient fiction that everyone is exactly the same, then when they interact with an athletic kid who dominates…

[deleted]

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#73

Post by tn13 »

moyix wrote: post #49

There is an interesting and critical look at Dweck's work on "growth mindset" here: http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/04/08/no-clarity-around-growt... http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/04/10/i-will-never-have-the-a... http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/04/22/growth-mindset-3-a-pox-... http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/05/07/growth-mindset-4-growth...

Thanks for this. Whenever I see a research that seems intuitive and also politically correct I like to see what the critics have to say.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#74

Post by gohrt »

dllthomas wrote: post #5
jedberg wrote: post #2

TL;DR: If you're interacting with a kid, try to avoid saying, "you're so smart!" and instead say, "You've picked this up really quickly" or "you're such a hard worker". If you tell a child they are smart then they will stop trying either because they assume they can get by on their intelligence or because they are afraid of failing and loosing your praise about how smart they are.

"You worked really hard on it that!" seems a bad thing to say without having observed the kid working hard. I know if I'd been told I worked hard on something that came easily, it would have cost the speaker credibility. My tentative plan, for my son, is to phrase it as a question. "Did you work hard on this?". If so, praise the hard work. If not, "let's find you something more challenging".

Sure, lying is unhelpful. The point is to praise the positive qualities that are under the recipient's control, such has effort, persistence, decisions. Generally, praise them for what they DO, not who they ARE.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#75

Post by Practicality »

ak39 wrote: post #6

What's the general impact on a child's motivational levels after being called "stupid" and/or "lazy"?

Usually they believe it. This is actually pretty well documented in psychology, although I am having some trouble finding a link at the moment.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#76

Post by jdimov10 »

jedberg wrote: post #2

TL;DR: If you're interacting with a kid, try to avoid saying, "you're so smart!" and instead say, "You've picked this up really quickly" or "you're such a hard worker". If you tell a child they are smart then they will stop trying either because they assume they can get by on their intelligence or because they are afraid of failing and loosing your praise about how smart they are.

Real TL;DR: This is a big load of BS from people who know nothing about children OR life.

I'm going to keep expressing my awe at how clever my kids are every chance I get. You tell yours to work hard all you want.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#77

Post by gohrt »

hashkb wrote: post #26
taylorwc wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. If your child does something to the absolute best of his/her abilities, but is not very effective, isn't that still praiseworthy? I have a two year old who exhibits no mastery of the English language, but I praise her when she tries out a new word on for size and keeps attempting to perfect it.

You're praising effective practicing habits. You can praise learning from mistakes. That's great. I always took "A for effort" to be extremely patronizing because I was trying to do the thing right.

The problem is the "A", not the "A for effort". "A for results" just highlights an arbitrary bar that is likely too low or too high.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#78

Post by gohrt »

danielweber wrote: post #44
jedberg wrote: post #2

TL;DR: If you're interacting with a kid, try to avoid saying, "you're so smart!" and instead say, "You've picked this up really quickly" or "you're such a hard worker". If you tell a child they are smart then they will stop trying either because they assume they can get by on their intelligence or because they are afraid of failing and loosing your praise about how smart they are.

I was aware of this research for my first kid. Telling them how hard they worked just gave them an excuse to quit later. "This is too difficult! You said so!" Kids are hard.

Kids are good at making excuses regardless. Logic only slows them down a little bit.

"Yes, it's difficult. The important things are difficult. It's not too difficult for you to do. You can do better each time you try again."

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#80

Post by ChuckMcM »

jedberg wrote: post #2

TL;DR: If you're interacting with a kid, try to avoid saying, "you're so smart!" and instead say, "You've picked this up really quickly" or "you're such a hard worker". If you tell a child they are smart then they will stop trying either because they assume they can get by on their intelligence or because they are afraid of failing and loosing your praise about how smart they are.

Having raised three kids I have learned that 99% of all parenting advice does not apply to any specific child and any specific parent. That said, parenting goals are consistent; Helping kids to understand the world around them, understand their effect on the world, and recognizing what it will take to achieve a particular goal.

Telling kids they are "smart" is part of the "understanding the world around them" goal. The reality is that everyone has different gifts in different combinations, and as a parent you want to help your child to both discover their own gifts and to appreciate the gifts of others. And you want to do that without imparting a judgment on the relative value of different gifts. Since "smart" is not well defined (does it mean good at math? or clever in solutions? or quickness of retort? depth of vocabulary? Etc.) I have sought to try to tie a gift to the context where it helps have an impact on the world (second concept above) which helps the child understand how they can contribute to an overall project or how others can contribute with their overall project.

The generic advice for parents is to 'praise the accomplishment not the child.' which seeks to turn the child's vision of their place in the world outward. However I have seen that be interpreted as "my accomplishments define me" which can be a problem as well. So I gave up with advice, and stick to goals.

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