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When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

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Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#191

Post by giardini »

losteric wrote: post #137
giardini wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And watch while we are plunged into a recession due to a huge disruption in global supply chains." WHAT supply chain? There is NO supply chain anymore. JIT (Just-In-Time) inventory has been replaced by BLTN (Better-Late-Than-Never) and AGNM (Ain't-Got-No-More) inventory. Went to a large box store on the weekend. They had empty containers marked "Display" on the shelves. Two different employees explained that I shoul…

Your anecdotes are not data.

The evidence is far more than anecdotal. Anyone who is an active tool user could provide more - ask your local mechanic. The experience I describe is almost universal and transcends the term "anecdodal".

Here's some bedside reading:

'What’s in a tool? A case for Made in USA':

http://hackaday.com/2016/01/18/whats-in-a-tool-a-case-for-ma...

Discussion of the same:

https://build.slashdot.org/story/16/01/18/213236/whats-in-a-...

"China & The Decline In Quality (And Soon In Profits)":

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-18/china-decline-quali...

And my favorite, just for fun: "Chinese Factory Worker Can't Believe The Shit He Makes For Americans":

http://www.theonion.com/article/chinese-factory-worker-cant-...

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#192

Post by blacksmith_tb »

Nadya wrote: post #156
giardini wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And watch while we are plunged into a recession due to a huge disruption in global supply chains." WHAT supply chain? There is NO supply chain anymore. JIT (Just-In-Time) inventory has been replaced by BLTN (Better-Late-Than-Never) and AGNM (Ain't-Got-No-More) inventory. Went to a large box store on the weekend. They had empty containers marked "Display" on the shelves. Two different employees explained that I shoul…

>I've bought five new fingernail clippers in the last six months and, for God's sake, they won't cut my nails! They're all made in China. I'm just here to help. May I suggest these: https://www.amazon.com/Seki-Edge-Stainless-Fingernail-Clippe... If your concern is with quality a good place to browse is: https://www.reddit.com/r/BuyItForLife/ Generally you'll have a number of options with pros/cons of each to select f…

I have to chime in on those Seki clippers, amazingly better than any I've ever tried, regardless of where they were made.

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#193

Post by terasoans »

erdevs wrote: post #28
sunstone wrote: post #7

The West and China are playing a global chess game and have been for some time. An impoverished China was not in the West's interests and so they agreed to buy all kinds of lowish tech Chinese made goods. In return most jurisdictions enforced a balance of trade with China, with the exception of the US. On their end China insisted on joint ventures and technology transfer to the extent Western companies would comply.…

It seems to me that China outplayed the West here by a wide margin. For some reason, the West has let China get away with extremely protectionist trade policies the likes of which no one else in the world would dare even attempt. I think this was a combination of fear that isolating China vs creating a high degree of economic interdependence could lead to war down the line, and a lack of control over Western companie…

The last time China had a huge trade imbalance with a country resulted in the Opium Wars.

I can see why China is so keen on improving their military now.

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#194

Post by terasoans »

jcoffland wrote: post #127
conanbatt wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it a problem if China develops a higher GDP than the US. Its not a problem for the people. It might be a problem to politicians that want to tell a story, but wishing china to do worse economically is truly backwards. If china comes out with better technology than the us, better products and services, cheaper and all that, the whole world gets better. If you dont believe that, then you must for the sake of con…

China is repressive and has very low standards for human rights. If China becomes more powerful they may decide to conquer the US properly. This may be along way off but this is the fear that's behind not wanting China to surpass the US economically.

At the time that the US was developing, it also had extremely low standards for human rights.

But as the US prospered, the Civil Rights movement kicked in. So perhaps the same will happen in China.

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#195

Post by mratzloff »

tiatia wrote: post #49
erdevs wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that China outplayed the West here by a wide margin. For some reason, the West has let China get away with extremely protectionist trade policies the likes of which no one else in the world would dare even attempt. I think this was a combination of fear that isolating China vs creating a high degree of economic interdependence could lead to war down the line, and a lack of control over Western companie…

> It seems to me that China outplayed the West here by a wide margin. Don't worry, the game is not over yet. >For some reason, the West has let China get away with extremely protectionist trade policies the likes of which no one else in the world would dare even attempt. Yes. But this could be changed by Trump in one day. (Sorry, I know that this is an extremely liberal board). Chinese don't believe in win-win. They…

> (Sorry, I know that this is an extremely liberal board).

Not really on economic policy, based on what I've seen. However, logical thinking is highly valued; that is to say, connecting the dots and backing up your assertions with evidence. Trite, blasé solutions to complex problems will usually earn a down vote on most topics, which is the case here.

Asserting in advance that the board is extremely liberal and will therefore disagree with you based on a difference of opinion is I'm sure reassuring when you are down voted, as it insulates you from any responsibility in putting forth a poorly-considered case. You are just lying to yourself, though.

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#196

Post by seanmcdirmid »

terasoans wrote: post #194
jcoffland wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is repressive and has very low standards for human rights. If China becomes more powerful they may decide to conquer the US properly. This may be along way off but this is the fear that's behind not wanting China to surpass the US economically.

At the time that the US was developing, it also had extremely low standards for human rights. But as the US prospered, the Civil Rights movement kicked in. So perhaps the same will happen in China.

That isn't true at all. The US had extremely high standards for human rights, just much lower standards for slaves, but the framework and standards already existed for post civil war and the civil rights movement. As far as human rights go, China is somewhere before the Magna Carta in western civilization.

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#197

Post by drawkbox »

Protectionism and currency manipulation in a free trade setup will end badly. Every trade deal we do needs to address these issues with consequences.

China joined the WTO in Oct '01 and full participation in '05, the US has suffered since then.

Problem is sometimes our greed drives these deals over long-term futures. The time of selling out the whole country with non-protectionism for a country that does protectionism and currency manipulation is truly a catastrophic deal for trade partners futures.

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#198

Post by trevelyan »

dragonwriter wrote: post #187
trevelyan wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States is already dealing with economic problems caused by the Chinese trade deficit, which siphons almost as much demand from the economy every year as Obama's 2008 stimulus added in a one-time shot. So it is an interesting question and certainly not one-sided.... https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/protectionism-g... A trade war would theoretically cause a deadweight loss in global GDP, but as l…

> and having the government take on additional interest-bearing debt instead does not seem particularly attractive when the Chinese are the ones who will end up collecting interest on the loan. But the Chinese aren't the ones that will end up collecting interest on additional US debt; while they are the biggest current foreign holder of US debt, their total holdings are dropping ; they not only aren't the biggest pur…

You're missing the point. The problem isn’t who buys the loans (that is optics). The problem is that you are imposing a long-term tax burden on Americans in order to paper over a structural demand deficit. This is unsustainable and also unfair -- Americans are already paying for the status quo through persistently high unemployment and wage stagnation.

The best solution of course involves China recognizing that persistent trade deficits hurt its trade partners. The problem is that the Chinese political system is its own distributional game, and while there are direct costs for its participants associated with opening up markets and letting foreign businesses compete with domestic ones, there are no costs and only benefits associated with foreign dumping.

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#199

Post by [deleted] »

morgante wrote: post #188
trevelyan wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States is already dealing with economic problems caused by the Chinese trade deficit, which siphons almost as much demand from the economy every year as Obama's 2008 stimulus added in a one-time shot. So it is an interesting question and certainly not one-sided.... https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/protectionism-g... A trade war would theoretically cause a deadweight loss in global GDP, but as l…

> And is it really crazy for the West to demand a level playing field in exchange for keeping China from economic collapse? I think the US should demand that China reduce restrictions, not that we should increase them. > government take on additional interest-bearing debt instead does not seem particularly attractive when the Chinese are the ones who will end up collecting interest on the loan Why not? Personally, I…

[deleted]

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#200

Post by zerohp »

SEJeff wrote: post #124
skynetv2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China ended up with last generate tech we are way past that point. China has leap frogged pretty much everyone else in every aspect. It took China less than a year to build the worlds fastest supercomputer (unclassified) after US placed restrictions on related technology exports to China. China was building components for supercomputers over the past decade, they would show case a network, a small processor, coolin…

The Linpack benchmark, which is the gold standard for the top500 super computer list you're referring to, can be gamed with a shitload of GPUs. The Chinese computers you're referring to simply have an enormous amount of GPUs. These aren't generalized computers, but quite specialized one. It is quite historic on its own, but the utility isn't quite what you might expect.

A system built with the same peak flops using GPUs would actually be more useful than what they built. The Sunway TaihuLight processing elements have 64KB scratchpad, no data cache, and have less memory bandwidth than Nvidia Fermi (7 years old.)

For most applications the processing elements will be so starved for data that they are just an idle waste of energy.

http://www.netlib.org/utk/people/JackDongarra/PAPERS/sunway-...

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