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After the coup, Turkey turns against America

economist.com

111–120 of 298 posts

Re: After the coup, Turkey turns against America

#111

I'm so tired of Turkey's shit. It's thanks to them that the only workable way to reconstruct Iraq (a three-state solution) was impossible because they would throw a tantrum about an independent Kurdistan.

Yeah, if they don't destroy Iraq why do they set conditions for the reconstruction!

Re: After the coup, Turkey turns against America

#112
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not just Erdogan. People of Turkey seem to be supporters of this path. Although its very sad.

The people have always been supporters of this path. That is why the reset button had to keep on being pushed by the military.

I would be interested to hear from people who are down voting this why they are doing that? On the surface this seems like a reasonable assumption given the role of the Turkish military.

Re: After the coup, Turkey turns against America

#113

I'm so tired of Turkey's shit. It's thanks to them that the only workable way to reconstruct Iraq (a three-state solution) was impossible because they would throw a tantrum about an independent Kurdistan.

Turkey is actually quite friendly with Iraqi Kurdistan.

Re: After the coup, Turkey turns against America

#114
post #6

Although from an outside perspective a military coup seems completely undemocratic the Turkish military has historically had the role of maintaining the principles Atatürk founded the Turkish Republic on. You can think of them as a built-in correction mechanism in case the government veers too far off course -- they remove the government, reset everything to start and then hand over control back to the people once th…

I mean, you could argue that maybe the military would be better, but a military coup of an elected leader doesn't just "seem" undemocratic; it is undemocratic by any reasonable standard.

[deleted]

Re: After the coup, Turkey turns against America

#115
post #37

Turkey seems to be turning against american values too with the recent "Turkey bans all academics from travel" announcement. It's like something out of Stalinist Russia.

I'm very pro-American in general but dislike the "American values" statement. Which values are they? Freedom, Rule of Law and Democracy? or torture in Guantanamo, invasion of Iraq based on complete BS reasons resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians, support of the Saudi Regime, thousands of citizens dieing from stupid gun laws, probable genocide of the original Native American population, Agent…

If the world was an action movie, America would definitely be one of the big bad guys in it. It's time for Americans to realize they are not the good guys in this story, that they haven't been the good guys since the 1940's, and that the only idiots that think Americans are the good guys in this hypothetical movie are stupid, ignorant Americans. The rest of us Americans are disgusted at what is and has happened in our names and by the many vile actions of our country.

Re: After the coup, Turkey turns against America

#116
post #105
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know whether he actually holds fundamentalist views himself... He does, actually. Google what he said about women.

You don't need to believe in religion to be a chauvinist, though.

And don't need to believe in anything to publicly support positions you think will get you votes.

Re: After the coup, Turkey turns against America

#117
post #6

Although from an outside perspective a military coup seems completely undemocratic the Turkish military has historically had the role of maintaining the principles Atatürk founded the Turkish Republic on. You can think of them as a built-in correction mechanism in case the government veers too far off course -- they remove the government, reset everything to start and then hand over control back to the people once th…

I mean, you could argue that maybe the military would be better, but a military coup of an elected leader doesn't just "seem" undemocratic; it is undemocratic by any reasonable standard.

What does an elected leader have to do to warrant a coup? Dismantle the democracy? Randomly start killing people? Start death camps? Where do you draw the line or do you have non?

Edit: typos

Re: After the coup, Turkey turns against America

#118
post #28
post #14

What coup? This is looking more like the entire event was staged as a pretext for a complete takeover, similar to the Reichstag fire of 1930s Germany.

This is getting downvoted because it sounds like hyperbole, but the comparison is quite apt. The Reichstag fire was blamed on the communists by the nazi party to brand them as traitors much like the coup is being blamed on the Gulen movement (which had a fall out with the AKP, Erdogan's ruling party). All signs point to the coup not being related to the Gulen movement at all and a lot of Erdogan's actions post-coup h…

> I personally think it was inevitable given the history of Turkey but it was carried out so incompetently and with little to no support from the military leadership that it's at least possible that it was intentionally made to happen the way it did

It's been reported that Turkish intelligence knew about it and did nothing.

Re: After the coup, Turkey turns against America

#119

Oh nice. The white European blaming is already starting. Let's forget that the majority of Turks elected a half-mad men that bases his discourse in the superiority of Islam and in the ethnical cleansing of Kurdistan. Let's forget that Erdogan supported the Islamic state. Let's forget that the Turks re-elected him after all this. Let's forget all these pro-Erdogan demonstrations going on in the streets of Ankara and I…

Your comment is full of unsupported propaganda statements. For the sake of your own rationality, please try to make a rational argument supporting them.

Re: After the coup, Turkey turns against America

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not just Erdogan. People of Turkey seem to be supporters of this path. Although its very sad.

I've been reading this sort of thing a lot recently. Indeed, I think someone admiringly called Turkey's military "the world's best armed constitutional court". Yet, from what I was able to gather, even the Turkish opposition parties objected to the coup, and comments from ordinary Turks (and interestingly Greeks) were that Turkish coups were very bad for them. Many of us presume to have the right to decide the fates…

> There is no excuse for human rights abuses, but if the majority of Turks believe they've been chafing under Kemalism for 90 years, and want to try something different, what right do we have to presume to dictate to them?

Democracy is not simply the rule of majority. There are certain fundamental aspects of democracy that are sacrilege and can not be broken down even if 99/100 citizens want it.

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