Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's diplomatic speak for Turkey having been the biggest sponsor of ISIS.
Source please!
A lot of ISIS oil passed trough Turkey.
After the coup, Turkey turns against America
61–70 of 298 posts
Re: After the coup, Turkey turns against America
#62Erdogan will push anti-american and anti-european feelings cause it's always a good thing for dictators to look like the victims. They look like being attacked from outside so they can purge and get the nationalist feeling up, they are the saviors and defenders of the state and the pride. Basic dictatorship 101
Re: After the coup, Turkey turns against America
#63For the most part, America had nothing to do with the coup attempt and had no idea that it was about to happen. Honestly, the majority of Americans couldn't find Turkey on a map even if you centered the map on Turkey. However, I certainly wouldn't be surprised if a few CIA types provided assistance like they've been known (or suspected) to do in South America and other parts of the world. The US government clearly be…
> Honestly, the majority of Americans couldn't find Turkey on a map even if you centered the map on Turkey. You phrase this as though it should somehow be easier to find things on an unfamiliar map than on a familiar one.
I'm saying that in general, Americans are uninformed with regards to geography/geopolitics. You could tell them that Turkey borders the Black Sea, the Mediterranean sea, and controls the Bosporous and Darndanelles straits and lots of people would still pick a landlocked country.
Re: After the coup, Turkey turns against America
#64Turkey is a very dangerous country. It has a large and powerful military, it could probably take over half the middle East if it wanted, and big parts of Eastern Europe. It would also like to take a bite out of Russia if Putin didn't have thousands of nukes. Let's hope they sway back to a secular, moderate nation.
I am not worried about Russia, but you are spot on that Turkey can cause a lot of damage.
Re: After the coup, Turkey turns against America
#65Although from an outside perspective a military coup seems completely undemocratic the Turkish military has historically had the role of maintaining the principles Atatürk founded the Turkish Republic on. You can think of them as a built-in correction mechanism in case the government veers too far off course -- they remove the government, reset everything to start and then hand over control back to the people once th…
I mean, you could argue that maybe the military would be better, but a military coup of an elected leader doesn't just "seem" undemocratic; it is undemocratic by any reasonable standard.
Re: After the coup, Turkey turns against America
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
There publicly holding hands, and then there is accusing the US of plotting a coup. Between these two extremes is a vast middle ground they could occupy. If anything the government are fanning the flames, not the other way around. Shoot down a Russian plane and then months later accuse the USA of a plot while arresting thousands of judges ... I worry that this is all the start of something really, really terrible.
We've been in the middle of something really, really terrible, for rather a few decades, and are not really coherently dealing with it - in the 'royal we', as I personally can state my bit of it - very well. There is a big rush to try to get the world to peacefully co-exist, and technology is doing that. Seriously. At the head of all of the chaos of military action, is a technological breakthrough that cannot be weap…
> Quick, invent something socially amazing, that cannot be weaponized, and will get everyone - of any nation state and language and cultural background - working and playing and co-existing, together.
Re: After the coup, Turkey turns against America
#67For the most part, America had nothing to do with the coup attempt and had no idea that it was about to happen. Honestly, the majority of Americans couldn't find Turkey on a map even if you centered the map on Turkey. However, I certainly wouldn't be surprised if a few CIA types provided assistance like they've been known (or suspected) to do in South America and other parts of the world. The US government clearly be…
You need to make some incredible leaps to assume the USA would be backing a poorly organized coup against a very valuable, even vital, NATO ally. Knowing the CIA's recent performance, most likely they heard about it from watching Fox News.
Just like it would be silly to spy on ALL of our important NATO allies? Just because they are an ally doesn't mean that parts of the government wouldn't go through great lengths to get them to do more. They would risk a lot because as mentioned elsewhere in the comments it's not like we're going to go to war.
Re: After the coup, Turkey turns against America
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
They are well on their well to caliphate that will be a hotbed for anti-western sentiment/anti-secular sentiment, so I fail to see how they are a strategic partner.
As long as they control the Dardanelles and the Bosphorus Strait their strategic position remains very valuable.
It's 2016 - Russia is not the enemy in a world of extremism.
Granted you can legitimately harp on Russia for free speech/human rights abuses, but America is no shining example here either. America is fraying, because it's largely ruled by its own set of oligarchs and the marginalized populations are lashing out.
Re: After the coup, Turkey turns against America
#69Turkey seems to be turning against american values too with the recent "Turkey bans all academics from travel" announcement. It's like something out of Stalinist Russia.
I'm very pro-American in general but dislike the "American values" statement. Which values are they?
Freedom, Rule of Law and Democracy?
or
torture in Guantanamo, invasion of Iraq based on complete BS reasons resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians, support of the Saudi Regime, thousands of citizens dieing from stupid gun laws, probable genocide of the original Native American population, Agent Orange, support for apartheid during most of it's time, lack of healthcare for the poor, support for rightwing Israeli policy, de facto not giving a crap about climate change, mass surveillance etc etc.
Re: After the coup, Turkey turns against America
#70Although from an outside perspective a military coup seems completely undemocratic the Turkish military has historically had the role of maintaining the principles Atatürk founded the Turkish Republic on. You can think of them as a built-in correction mechanism in case the government veers too far off course -- they remove the government, reset everything to start and then hand over control back to the people once th…
> I don't think he staged the failed coup himself
Indeed. It is is pretty irrational for a grandee to "fake a coup" if the said grandee is not in 100% control of military-spook set. (And if 100%, it makes no sense, since you already have full control.)
> He spread the narrative that the coup was staged not to defend Atatürk's principles but by a religious sect his ruling party fell out with.
http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/2016/07/19/incir...
You know, you can try and spin this n times till eternity, but it is pretty clear that either US or NATO tried to remove the legal government of a NATO member.
This is Bay of Pigs v2.0 + "who lost China" all rolled in one.