Coup attempt underway in Turkey

Post by drauh » Sat, Jul 16, 2016, 2:46 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #60

scarmig wrote: post #15

Anyone have a take on how successful this is likely to be? Both sides are claiming victory and that they've beaten the other side, naturally. Propaganda is everywhere. The only thing I figure is that since Erdogan is calling for a mass uprising in the streets, the status quo has him losing. He needs to radically change the dynamics of the situation to stay in power, and mass protests and displays of martyrdom in the…

No. Erdogan called for people to take to the streets, and within an hour, the airport and bridge were filled with thousands of people waving flags. (From pictures, all male.) That's popular support. The military is not attacking the crowds. The military presence was apparently not that big, concentrating on a few key spots. A coup has to succeed within the first few hours. Control must be established before oppositio…

Post by mnbcvx » Sat, Jul 16, 2016, 2:52 AM UTC

jazzyk wrote: post #208

mnbcvx wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, I was talking about this with my wife yesterday. It's illegal for a women to go topless in France (but not a man), so how is a women covering her breasts any different than a woman covering her head? I can't imagine anything less welcoming than being a recent refugee or immgrant, and then in order to receive an education you are forced to break with a core tenet of your religious and cultural beliefs, and…

Not head, face .

Post by dang » Sat, Jul 16, 2016, 2:59 AM UTC

ZainRiz wrote: post #105

How do you define liberal? France's idea of "liberalism" is "follow our culture exactly or face heavy fines/punishment". They've basically turned their culture into a new religion

Post by albertop » Sat, Jul 16, 2016, 3:02 AM UTC

em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #184

fsaneq2 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having been brought up in a French system and then going to a US college, I must say I strongly prefer the French system. I guess Americans would take offense to this view, but I find wearing religious clothing in a public institution such as a school incredibly obnoxious and pushy -- it's akin to your professor suddenly starting to push his/her political views onto you in an unrelated lecture, or something. It's not…

> "I find wearing religious clothing in a public institution such as a school incredibly obnoxious and pushy -- it's akin to your professor suddenly starting to push his/her political views onto you in an unrelated lecture" But prohibiting the wearing of religious clothing IS pushing political views.

Post by em3rgent0rdr » Sat, Jul 16, 2016, 3:07 AM UTC

tcoppi wrote: post #204

kiba wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that it's bad to wear religious clothing or have political opinions -- it's just that a school should be a place of learning, not propaganda. As an American, I think of nothing when people wear hijab or whatever, and trust me, I am an atheist who think religion is irrational and that humanity would be better off without it. Maybe the French would be better off thinking nothing of it when someone wears religi…

I am extremely sympathetic to this view as an American, but I think it is worthwhile to think of this from a native Frenchman's perspective. There has been a mass influx of "foreign" Muslim/Islamic peoples there over the past twenty-odd years that do not share western secular values for the most part, and are happy to impose their own views on the native population. If you were a native Frenchman, or a person in a si…