Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Coup attempt underway in Turkey

theatlantic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 375 posts

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#121

Post by Jugurtha »

petercooper wrote: post #92
whack wrote: post #10

"Modern Turkey was founded by Mustafa Kemal, a general in the Turkish Army who was later formally granted the surname “Ataturk,” or father of the Turks. Ataturk set about an aggressive program of modernizing and “Westernizing” the country, pushing religion to the margins, banning certain apparel like headscarves and fezes, and converting Turkish from Arabic to Latin script. But that secularism has always remained ten…

A democratic arm that rules the country day-to-day, and a "benevolent dictatorship" that will overthrow the democratic arm if it violates the country's "fundamental principles" Exactly (part of) why I'm in support of the monarchy in the UK. If push came to shove, the armed forces swear their allegiance to the British monarch, not the government (I'm from an army family and know this is taken seriously). We have attai…

>We have attained an interesting stalemate where a corrupt/crazy monarch would struggle to assert power, yet a grossly malfunctioning government can still, in theory, be replaced by one if the people were to allow it.

Could you elaborate, please?

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#122

Post by jwhitlark »

cperciva wrote: post #43
nostrademons wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The U.S. separation of power is based on similar ideas. Congress makes laws on a day-by-day basis, but when the will of the people contradicts certain fundamental principles enshrined in the Constitution, the courts have a right to strike down and nullify laws.

the courts have a right to strike down and nullify laws. And, at least theoretically, the military oath to defend the constitution could require them to overthrow a government which does not conform to the constitution. In practice, of course, issues are likely to be resolved before they reach that point.

It's also notable that there are many different militaries in the US: the 5 main national branches, the national guard units of the various states, as well as the state defense forces, that some states also maintain.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#125

Post by _pferreir_ »

petercooper wrote: post #92
whack wrote: post #10

"Modern Turkey was founded by Mustafa Kemal, a general in the Turkish Army who was later formally granted the surname “Ataturk,” or father of the Turks. Ataturk set about an aggressive program of modernizing and “Westernizing” the country, pushing religion to the margins, banning certain apparel like headscarves and fezes, and converting Turkish from Arabic to Latin script. But that secularism has always remained ten…

A democratic arm that rules the country day-to-day, and a "benevolent dictatorship" that will overthrow the democratic arm if it violates the country's "fundamental principles" Exactly (part of) why I'm in support of the monarchy in the UK. If push came to shove, the armed forces swear their allegiance to the British monarch, not the government (I'm from an army family and know this is taken seriously). We have attai…

What does that have to do with monarchy? The same happens in some republics. E.g. in Portugal there is a prime minister (government) and a president who acts as supreme commander of the armed forces.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#126

Post by the_af »

watermelon59 wrote: post #37
BukhariH wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't be so sure about Erdogan losing power. Erdogan has an extreme amount of support within the country not just from the people but from the Turkish intelligence services & military aswell. A lot of people have elevated him to the same level as Ataturk. I'm about 80% sure Erdogan will manage to retain power from just what I know about Turkish politics - which isn't a lot to be honest. Early days right now but…

Tangential, but why do people support Erdogan? From what I hear he's a terrible leader and moving towards a full dictatorship.

Sky News is interviewing a Turkish journalist right now, live (http://news.sky.com/story/live-turkish-army-says-taken-power... ). She says she supports democracy, not Erdogan, and that she's appalled that a small number of soldiers can take that away from Turkey. She's also appalled that a NATO member has to deal with military coups...

edit: the interview has just ended. I hope the clip can be found, because what this woman was saying was very interesting.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#127

Post by oldboyFX »

cperciva wrote: post #52

Why did people support Hitler? Why do people support Trump? Why do people support Putin? Some people aren't very concerned with democratic principles; some people like the policy agenda and are willing to sacrifice democratic principles in order to get the policies they want; some people are gullible and believe scapegoat arguments; some people, particularly in times of insecurity, seek out a "strong man".

Are you seriously comparing hitler with trump and putin? Holy crap some people are truly indoctrinated by their ideologies to the point of no return.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#128

Post by dmix »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #117
Animats wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capture the Prime Minister and President. The coup leaders failed to do that.

Yes. That's coup d'etat 101: capture political leaders and secure them. Only then can you move on to the next step. If this thing goes south -- and I fear it will -- the backlash will be severe. Not a good thing for the future of Turkey.

> If this thing goes south -- and I fear it will -- the backlash will be severe. Not a good thing for the future of Turkey.

Especially considering he has been a tempered authoritarian before the coup. Now they will respond by expanding authority. Leaders like that always do.

Hopefully that will further lead to support of the coup end goals which had some legitimacy. The only problem is that Erogdan has many hardline islamic fanatics who will take to the streets and help maintain his power.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#129

Post by tobias3 »

majani wrote: post #113
tobias3 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What should they have done (additionally)? E.g. take out/over all civil communication infrastructure, such as ISPs, cellular networks, phone landlines? Then enforce the curfew with actual deadly force (since they are not a police force with riot gear...)?

Here is a chart that describes the practical steps: https://embed.gyazo.com/4324b66e1a3045ad63349061a76f4756.png According to that illustration, the coup plotters missed the crucial step of breaching the president's residence and capturing him. They completely mistimed the coup when the president was on vacation outside the country. Now he has been able to rally support against the coup and his supporters are on the…

He was reportedly on holiday in Turkey in Marmaris, so maybe they did not know where he was or did not have the man power to capture him.

I wonder how it would have played out if they had captured him. I can even imagine that more people would have protested.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#130

Post by kpil »

Steko wrote: post #88
ugh123 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A democratic arm that rules the country day-to-day, and a "benevolent dictatorship" that will overthrow the democratic arm if it violates the country's "fundamental principles" Sounds a lot like Iran, although their "democratic arm" is very much a farce.

Curiously the description of the West cheering on the non-democratic results reminded me of Shah-era Iran, that turned out swimmingly.

I guess we have to wait and see if this goes pear shaped.

There have not exactly been rejoicing in European media. Not sure if that is a good sign, but I take it as there is little propaganda going on, so this might have been planned primarily by internal forces.

Post reply on HN